Installing Kona Labs LevelSmart Auto Fill

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Ahultin said:
There seems to be a fair amount of positive reviews for the levelsmart and all references show them installed on the return side between filter and heater, though the best photo I found had it between pump and filter. Some of the installs are definitely questionable as to baackflow legality but all seem to rave about how they work with the absence of a dedicated line.
Your install plan seems sound with the addition of the pvb you linked. Maybe @Dirk could comment on the backflow selection and install location.
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Thank you for posting this picture. I wish I had that much open tubing between my suction line and the pump! Whoever did the plumbing has elbow after elbow after elbow. I honestly dont know what to even do if it needs a repair in the future?
 
microscopes said:
Thank you for posting this picture. I wish I had that much open tubing between my suction line and the pump! Whoever did the plumbing has elbow after elbow after elbow. I honestly dont know what to even do if it needs a repair in the future?
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How about here?
AFAE533B-BF1C-45DD-B44F-283E6CAA5148.jpeg
 
Dirk said:
Sorry, don't have time today to read this whole thread. But I can offer some quick thoughts.

1. The sprinkler valve pictured in the previous post is not even rated for a second valve downstream of it, let alone a complete pressurized pool filtering system. So I wouldn't emulate that, if that's being considered.

2. Based on what we all just learned about BFP valves in another thread, and how they equalize water pressure on each side of themselves by venting water, even if you did use a proper pressure-rated BFP valve, the constantly changing pressure on the pool plumbing side vs the house side might be quite the water works spitting out of it. See here:

Backflow Preventer

The city requires a back flow preventer be hooked up to my autofill line. The pool builder installed one. The problem is that, fairly often, it starts to vent water from the CITY side. I know it's from the city, because I tasted it (not salty at all) and also my pool water level was well...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

I don't know enough about BFP valves to recommend feeding one into either the suction side or the pressure side of a pool filtering system, if that's what you're attempting.

That said, there are systems designed for that purpose, that can be used "after market" when there is no dedicated line running to the pool. Pentair makes one, there may be other brands. I can't seem to find it on their site just now, but I'll try later. I'm not talking about their float valve systems, this was one you could install at the pad and it would maintain the pool's water level somehow, but it fed water into the existing filtering plumbing, not into a dedicated fill line.
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HI Dirk.
I recently learned about the spill behavior of backflow preventers too. That lead me to stumbling upon spill less backflow preventers. I don't know how they work but they say they prevent backflow without spilling any water. They're meant for indoor installs where spilling water just wouldn't be acceptable.
 
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bradgray said:
Pentair's is the IntelliLevel. It requires a vertical riser installed on the intake a minimum of a couple feet above the pool water. It measured some sort of differential of the air gap or something. I can't remember because we promptly yanked one out after a lot of frustration and replaced with the Levelor. Worked much more reliably. But requires a similar vertical riser with a probe instead.

The LevelSmart was installed on 3 of our more recent accounts by the PB. New builds. So far they've actually worked just fine for almost a year. But I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. I think it's bound to have issue later; too many components. Wireless-anything feels unreliable.

But given your setup, it may be 1 step better than the Pool Sentry styled ones that sit on the coping.
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I'm really happy to hear that you've installed 3 and haven't had any issues yet. I know Pool Kings on HGTV puts them in their pools and they rave about them, so hopefully yours keeping working too.

I currently have the deck-style autofill that attaches to a hose but insurance wants it gone since we rent the house on occasion and its a tripping hazard.
 
microscopes said:
Yeah that's definitely a possibility - I thought you meant you saw a lot of people putting it in before it reaches the pump. I may have misunderstood
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understood. None of the installed photos that i could find had it installed on the suction side. The one i posted was the "least sketchy" lol. Using the pressure vaccum breaker you linked your install would be worlds above the photos i found (and they were all from people raving about how well it works) @bradgray mentioned three recent customer pools using the levelsmart, maybe he has some photos as well?
 
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PBs install is loose. Could've been cleaner but in his defense, the LevelSmart has a lot of components to deal with.

So far its worked fine, just looks like garbage. Seems vulnerable to accidents.

We'd MUCH rather a normal float fill on a new construction pool, so to have this on a new build makes zero sense to me.

Time will tell how it holds up.


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If you had an unused cleaner line (pressure or suction), you could use a traditional fill bucket with a float valve located at the pad. It would just need to be placed at the correct the height relative to the pool water level. Completely passive, no electronics required.
 
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bradgray said:
PBs install is loose. Could've been cleaner but in his defense, the LevelSmart has a lot of components to deal with.

So far its worked fine, just looks like garbage. Seems vulnerable to accidents.

We'd MUCH rather a normal float fill on a new construction pool, so to have this on a new build makes zero sense to me.

Time will tell how it holds up.
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Thanks for posting this. So this LevelSmart is plumbing into the suction side (before the pump)?
 

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microscopes said:
Thanks for posting this. So this LevelSmart is plumbing into the suction side (before the pump)?
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That install is sketchy, moreover from a pool builder 😬. Its on the suction side but behind the spa 3 way so it would backfeeeding the spa main drain. Then it's pex with a ton of reducers introducing a bunch of potential leak points. Top it off with the saddle splice into the 2" this definitely looks like a "we screwed up annd forgot the autoffill" lol
 
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Ahultin said:
That install is sketchy, moreover from a pool builder 😬. Its on the suction side but behind the spa 3 way so it would backfeeeding the spa main drain. Then it's pex with a ton of reducers introducing a bunch of potential leak points. Top it off with the saddle splice into the 2" this definitely looks like a "we screwed up annd forgot the autoffill" lol
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PB is pretty green. Really humble guy though and has been receptive to a lot of advice. Late 20s/early 30s.

On this pool, the client had him build a shower/toilet/slide outhouse and they had to build it right over the skimmer and autofill. I don't remember what went wrong but the autofill couldn't be used so he abandoned it. Our favorite part is that the skimmer is accessed from inside the bathroom, under the sink cabinet. We've legitimately had to wait for guests to finish their business in order to empty the skimmer. It's fantastic.

Another pool had a crushed fill line somewhere under the slab and he used the remote system instead of cutting the concrete. These were both fiberglass and he said they sat there for a year before the homes were finished. I imagine it was ultimately a cost decision.
 
bradgray said:
PB is pretty green. Really humble guy though and has been receptive to a lot of advice. Late 20s/early 30s.

On this pool, the client had him build a shower/toilet/slide outhouse and they had to build it right over the skimmer and autofill. I don't remember what went wrong but the autofill couldn't be used so he abandoned it. Our favorite part is that the skimmer is accessed from inside the bathroom, under the sink cabinet. We've legitimately had to wait for guests to finish their business in order to empty the skimmer. It's fantastic.

Another pool had a crushed fill line somewhere under the slab and he used the remote system instead of cutting the concrete. These were both fiberglass and he said they sat there for a year before the homes were finished. I imagine it was ultimately a cost decision.
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That makes sense, at least he made an effort to correct. Access the skimmer thru a cabinet in the bathroom , lol thats a new one :ROFLMAO:
 
bradgray said:
PBs install is loose. Could've been cleaner but in his defense, the LevelSmart has a lot of components to deal with.

So far its worked fine, just looks like garbage. Seems vulnerable to accidents.

We'd MUCH rather a normal float fill on a new construction pool, so to have this on a new build makes zero sense to me.

Time will tell how it holds up.
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This looks fantastic. Remind me again: what animal are you hunting? I like how if the foot trap doesn't catch it, there's still a shot it'd get tangled up in the spider web!

You don't need "time" to tell you how this will hold up. It won't.

Come on. Personally, I would have rejected that work. I can virtually guarantee the fill line is going to get kicked and broken. And it won't break on the outflow side, nope, it's pull out on whatever side will get you the most soaked on a cold fall night, in the dark, on the wrong side of the shut-off valve, of course. Or it'll be the wiring. It'll be a race to see which gets yanked apart first. And the wires on the wall should be supported, and protected from UV. I would have used conduit, which he clearly knows how to do (or did someone else wire your lights?). Better still, those two devices should be in some sort of weather-resistant box, nice and neat, with conduit between the box and where the wires have to end up. A box like the Pro-Trade box or similar. He's got quite a menagerie going on over there under the automation controller, too. It's sub-standard work, IMO, and not professional, at all.

A pad can be a pretty harsh environment: wind, water under pressure, rain, chlorine, acid, dust, dirt, sand, rocks, kids, animals (like Pex-chewing squirrels), pool toys and maybe throw in a "helper" with a beer or two under his belt. Ya gotta make 'em a little "Murphy's Law" proof. Hide wires from the sun, make them trip proof. Look for trip and step hazards, especially smaller pipe and device that aren't as strong as the other stuff. Tuck them under or behind heavier duty elements for protection. Stuff like that. For example, that fill line should have been on the house side of that pipe, not stretched across a walkway. If that's where the source happened to come up, then bury a line from it, under the pipe, and pop it up on the other side. Is Pex even UV rated?

Please pardon my ol' crotchetiness. If you like all that, then never mind. Otherwise, have him straighten it out, or do so yourself. I try to use the 30-year rule when assembling things of this nature. As in: will this hold up for 30 years of abuse as is? Adjust the 30 to suit. I use thirty 'cause I won't be a pool owner after that, one way or another.
 
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Dirk said:
This looks fantastic. Remind me again: what animal are you hunting? I like how if the foot trap doesn't catch it, there's still a shot it'd get tangled up in the spider web!

You don't need "time" to tell you how this will hold up. It won't.

Come on. Personally, I would have rejected that work. I can virtually guarantee the fill line is going to get kicked and broken. And it won't break on the outflow side, nope, it's pull out on whatever side will get you the most soaked on a cold fall night, in the dark, on the wrong side of the shut-off valve, of course. Or it'll be the wiring. It'll be a race to see which gets yanked apart first. And the wires on the wall should be supported, and protected from UV. I would have used conduit, which he clearly knows how to do (or did someone else wire your lights?). Better still, those two devices should be in some sort of weather-resistant box, nice and neat, with conduit between the box and where the wires have to end up. A box like the Pro-Trade box or similar. He's got quite a menagerie going on over there under the automation controller, too. It's sub-standard work, IMO, and not professional, at all.

A pad can be a pretty harsh environment: wind, water under pressure, rain, chlorine, acid, dust, dirt, sand, rocks, kids, animals (like Pex-chewing squirrels), pool toys and maybe throw in a "helper" with a beer or two under his belt. Ya gotta make 'em a little "Murphy's Law" proof. Hide wires from the sun, make them trip proof. Look for trip and step hazards, especially smaller pipe and device that aren't as strong as the other stuff. Tuck them under or behind heavier duty elements for protection. Stuff like that. For example, that fill line should have been on the house side of that pipe, not stretched across a walkway. If that's where the source happened to come up, then bury a line from it, under the pipe, and pop it up on the other side. Is Pex even UV rated?

Please pardon my ol' crotchetiness. If you like all that, then never mind. Otherwise, have him straighten it out, or do so yourself. I try to use the 30-year rule when assembling things of this nature. As in: will this hold up for 30 years of abuse as is? Adjust the 30 to suit. I use thirty 'cause I won't be a pool owner after that, one way or another.
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Thanks for the chuckle! But you gave the choir a sermon; this isn't my pool my friend.

This is an account we've had for about 6 months and the PB had issues with the autofill (see my subsequent posts about how we have access his skimmer) and he used the equipment the OP was after - equipment no one on the thread thus far had seen in person. This same PB has used this on his other two pools on the same street. They're a cleaner install, and subsequently less fun to bring to show-and-tell.

I don't approve of the install, nor do we especially love the product. But OP is in a tough spot and given their options, this was the most transparency the OP was gonna get in terms of what they're looking at getting into. Wanted OP to see the bad, and concede that despite it, we had to admit it had worked so far.

I'll never install one. I'll never repair one. But I'm more than happy to take a few images and give an account of our experience with it. Including the moment it inevitably ensnares one of my technicians and holds him cold and blue lying in a growing puddle of unfettered, rushing fill water...
 
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bradgray said:
Thanks for the chuckle! But you gave the choir a sermon; this isn't my pool my friend.

This is an account we've had for about 6 months and the PB had issues with the autofill (see my subsequent posts about how we have access his skimmer) and he used the equipment the OP was after - equipment no one on the thread thus far had seen in person. This same PB has used this on his other two pools on the same street. They're a cleaner install, and subsequently less fun to bring to show-and-tell.

I don't approve of the install, nor do we especially love the product. But OP is in a tough spot and given their options, this was the most transparency the OP was gonna get in terms of what they're looking at getting into. Wanted OP to see the bad, and concede that despite it, we had to admit it had worked so far.

I'll never install one. I'll never repair one. But I'm more than happy to take a few images and give an account of our experience with it. Including the moment it inevitably ensnares one of my technicians and holds him cold and blue lying in a growing puddle of unfettered, rushing fill water...
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That's my bad. Apologies. I jumped in the middle of this thread and still haven't had time to read the whole thing. Keep up the good work.
 
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Killing time waiting at the tire shop just now, I spotted this just off of their parking lot, and it made me think of the comment I left here earlier. Obviously the slab was poured after the drip went in, and there’s no way the concrete guy can claim he didn’t see it. Another example of some fine work and a case of “won’t-be-my-problem-itis.”

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Whaddayagunnado…

Ya gotta watch these guys every second!
 
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