Installing Kona Labs LevelSmart Auto Fill

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microscopes said:
What are you thinking is the biggest possible issue that could arise from putting it on the main return line?
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The pressure of the water from the filter will be greater than the fill water pressure and there will be no fill flow. Basically the autofill will not work.

This assumes your backflow preventer system works and the greater pool water pressure does not backfeed into the fill line.
 
ajw22 said:
The pressure of the water from the filter will be greater than the fill water pressure and there will be no fill flow. Basically the autofill will not work.

This assumes your backflow preventer system works and the greater pool water pressure does not backfeed into the fill line.
Click to expand...

Gotcha. Thank you.
I was hoping since a home water line is usually 30+ PSI and pool pumps usually push around 10psi, the fill woudl work.
 
microscopes said:
Gotcha. Thank you.
I was hoping since a home water line is usually 30+ PSI and pool pumps usually push around 10psi, the fill woudl work.
Click to expand...

I don't think you can count on either of those numbers.

Your signature does not show what type or model filter you have.

What range of PSI do you see on your filter PSI gauge?

@mas985 any thoughts about this?
 
ajw22 said:
I don't think you can count on either of those numbers.

Your signature does not show what type or model filter you have.

What range of PSI do you see on your filter PSI gauge?

@mas985 any thoughts about this?
Click to expand...

Just had a new one installed - the psi stays around 7 or 8 on the gauge.
 
microscopes said:
Gotcha. Thank you.
I was hoping since a home water line is usually 30+ PSI and pool pumps usually push around 10psi, the fill woudl work.
Click to expand...
As long as the water line pressure is higher than the pump pressure, water would flow into the plumbing.

But why risk it when you can easily do the same thing on the suction side of the pump and water will never flow backwards in that case although I would still put in a backflow preventer on the water line. There is really no reason you need to add water to the pressure side of the pump when the suction side has more benefits.

But how do you plan on controlling how much water is added?

Also, the Y vs T is insignificant. The Y does not prevent backflow. You need a backflow preventer for that.
 
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mas985 said:
As long as the water line pressure is higher than the pump pressure, water would flow into the plumbing.

But why risk it when you can easily do the same thing on the suction side of the pump and water will never flow backwards in that case although I would still put in a backflow preventer on the water line. There is really no reason you need to add water to the pressure side of the pump when the suction side has more benefits.
Click to expand...

That's a great question. It's mainly because the suction side only has a tiny little nub before going into the pump (bad previous plumbing?). It all elbows. 2" of pipe. Wouldn’t know how to fit the valve in there in the space available. Hmm.

7EE0902C-14C5-4C47-9387-97D72869AB99.jpeg

mas985 said:
But how do you plan on controlling how much water is added?
Click to expand...

KonaLabs makes a auto-fill valve. It uses a sensor in the basket area or on your tile to tell the valve to open when the water gets too low. Pool Kings (from the TV show) uses them on their pools. It only fills in 7 minute increments and then checks again, so the pool can never overfill.
 
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mas985 said:
As long as the water line pressure is higher than the pump pressure, water would flow into the plumbing.

But why risk it when you can easily do the same thing on the suction side of the pump and water will never flow backwards in that case although I would still put in a backflow preventer on the water line. There is really no reason you need to add water to the pressure side of the pump when the suction side has more benefits.

But how do you plan on controlling how much water is added?

Also, the Y vs T is insignificant. The Y does not prevent backflow. You need a backflow preventer for that.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't putting it on the suction line pull the sprinkler valve open any time the pump is on?
It looks like with a pvb installed before the sprinkler valve and being vigilant with watching pressure it would work though not be ideal. Looking at Buffalo NY it appears they don't have a specific backflow required, just they require one.
@microscopes do you have automation?
 
Ahultin said:
Wouldn't putting it on the suction line pull the sprinkler valve open any time the pump is on?
It looks like with a pvb installed before the sprinkler valve and being vigilant with watching pressure it would work though not be ideal. Looking at Buffalo NY it appears they don't have a specific backflow required, just they require one.
@microscopes do you have automation?
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Hi there. No automation. Pump runs 24/7.

PS, I was going to put a backflow preventer on regardless. This one:

 
Ahultin said:
Wouldn't putting it on the suction line pull the sprinkler valve open any time the pump is on?
Click to expand...
No, it just increases the differential pressure and not really by that much. The negative pressure is only a few PSI. It is no different than adding a few PSI to the hose line.

microscopes said:
That's a great question. It's mainly because the suction side only has a tiny little nub before going into the pump (bad previous plumbing). It all elbows. 2" of pipe. Wouldn’t know how to fit the valve in there in the space available. Hmm
Click to expand...
You could use the pump drain plug as a fill point.
 
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@mas985 Potential problem: I cant seem to find any 1" to 1/4" pvc reducers. Do they exist? The auto-fill valve is 1" and the drain plug I think is 1/4" (or maybe 3/8"?). Its an SMF pump.
 
You can use one of these with 1/4" tubing:

www.homedepot.com

Everbilt 1/4 in. Barb x 1/4 in. MIP Brass Adapter Fitting 800119 - The Home Depot

These hose barbs are made of durable, corrosion resistant and lead-free brass while conforming to NSF 61 and 372 and are registered in Mass. They have several barbs to hold when inserted into tubing. Best for use with plastic, vinyl or rubber tubing. Pair with a hose clamp for a more secure fit.
www.homedepot.com
 
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There seems to be a fair amount of positive reviews for the levelsmart and all references show them installed on the return side between filter and heater, though the best photo I found had it between pump and filter. Some of the installs are definitely questionable as to baackflow legality but all seem to rave about how they work with the absence of a dedicated line.
Your install plan seems sound with the addition of the pvb you linked. Maybe @Dirk could comment on the backflow selection and install location.
original.jpg
 
Sorry, don't have time today to read this whole thread. But I can offer some quick thoughts.

1. The sprinkler valve pictured in the previous post is not even rated for a second valve downstream of it, let alone a complete pressurized pool filtering system. So I wouldn't emulate that, if that's being considered.

2. Based on what we all just learned about BFP valves in another thread, and how they equalize water pressure on each side of themselves by venting water, even if you did use a proper pressure-rated BFP valve, the constantly changing pressure on the pool plumbing side vs the house side might be quite the water works spitting out of it. See here:

Backflow Preventer

The city requires a back flow preventer be hooked up to my autofill line. The pool builder installed one. The problem is that, fairly often, it starts to vent water from the CITY side. I know it's from the city, because I tasted it (not salty at all) and also my pool water level was well...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

I don't know enough about BFP valves to recommend feeding one into either the suction side or the pressure side of a pool filtering system, if that's what you're attempting.

That said, there are systems designed for that purpose, that can be used "after market" when there is no dedicated line running to the pool. Pentair makes one, there may be other brands. I can't seem to find it on their site just now, but I'll try later. I'm not talking about their float valve systems, this was one you could install at the pad and it would maintain the pool's water level somehow, but it fed water into the existing filtering plumbing, not into a dedicated fill line.
 
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Dirk said:
Sorry, don't have time today to read this whole thread. But I can offer some quick thoughts.

1. The sprinkler valve pictured in the previous post is not even rated for a second valve downstream of it, let alone a complete pressurized pool filtering system. So I wouldn't emulate that, if that's being considered.

2. Based on what we all just learned about BFP valves in another thread, and how they equalize water pressure on each side of themselves by venting water, even if you did have a proper pressure-rated BFP valve, the constantly changing pressure on the pool plumbing side vs the house side might be quite the water works spitting out of it. See here:

Backflow Preventer

The city requires a back flow preventer be hooked up to my autofill line. The pool builder installed one. The problem is that, fairly often, it starts to vent water from the CITY side. I know it's from the city, because I tasted it (not salty at all) and also my pool water level was well...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

I don't know enough about BFP valves to recommend feeding one into either the suction side or the pressure side of a pool filtering system, if that's what you're attempting.

That said, there are systems designed for that purpose, that can be used "after market" when there is no dedicated line running to the pool. Pentair makes one, there may be other brands. I can't seem to find it on their site just now, but I'll try later. I'm not talking about their float valve systems, this was one you could install at the pad and it would maintain the pool's water level somehow, but it fed water into the existing filtering plumbing, not into a dedicated fill line.
Click to expand...
yup, the OP is looking at using the Konalabs Levelsmart product LevelSmart™ Wireless Autofill which uses a hunter pgv sprinkler valve to feed water into the return line then a wireless sensor at the pool to activate the sprinkler valve when the level is low. . The instructions dont mention a backflow but the user manual illustrates one in the example photo (while seemingly not mentioning it anywhere else)
 
This might have been what I was thinking of. It's not Pentair.

www.konalabs.com

LevelSmart™ Wireless Autofill

Stop manually filling your pool and get the only pool autofill that requires no deck destruction or hose to work day and night. Easy installation, wireless technology and the ability to retrofit to any pool makes the LevelSmart Wireless Autofill the best automatic pool filler on the market...
www.konalabs.com www.konalabs.com
 
Oops, crossed posts. Yah, that's all I got. It would definitely need some sort of check valve or BFP valve, or both. But I don't know if the typical Zurn BFPs would be applicable. They would know, the OP might try Zurn support.

I imagine there might be a need for BFP between a local water supply and booster pumps supplying big fountains or extensive irrigation systems, etc. So there should be a solution.
 
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Pentair's is the IntelliLevel. It requires a vertical riser installed on the intake a minimum of a couple feet above the pool water. It measured some sort of differential of the air gap or something. I can't remember because we promptly yanked one out after a lot of frustration and replaced with the Levelor. Worked much more reliably. But requires a similar vertical riser with a probe instead.

The LevelSmart was installed on 3 of our more recent accounts by the PB. New builds. So far they've actually worked just fine for almost a year. But I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. I think it's bound to have issue later; too many components. Wireless-anything feels unreliable.

But given your setup, it may be 1 step better than the Pool Sentry styled ones that sit on the coping.
 
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