New Construction Started - Willis, TX (north of Houston)

JamesW said:

You can install a strainer on each line to each sheer.

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I believe we need 60 gpm per sheer? If correct would it be best to plumb w/2.5" pipe to have some "wiggle room" or would 2" not be cutting it too close?

JamesW said:

Using the CCP 520 on the infinity edge can allow up to 150 gpm, which will give a lift of about 5/16” above the weir wall top.

It’s important to get the weir top edge as perfectly straight and level as possible.

Note that the cartridge is rated at 0.375 GPM per square foot.

520 sqft at 0.375 gpm per sqft is 195 gpm.

If we assume a maximum flow of 195 GPM, the maximum lift will be about 3/8” above the weir wall, but 5/16” is probably the best you can expect assuming a limit of 150 GPM through the filter at full rated capacity.

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Copy that with regards to the weir top edge. I'm sure the PB is tired of me hammering that home.

What if I were to have a bypass plumbed around the filter in order to maximize flow on occasion? What kind of lift could I expect in a best case scenario?

JamesW said:

The best case would be about 200 GPM, which is about 3/8" lift with a 24 foot weir wall.

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I guess I assumed a bit more than 1/16" given there would be no restriction from the filter. Obviously that speaks volumes about my understanding of flow science. Regardless, I like the idea of a bypass. Are there any major issues with having one installed?

JamesW said:

If you wanted, you could install a second main drain in the basin and run a line to the water feature pump so that you could switch the suction of the water feature pump from the pool to the basin/trough and then you could get almost 400 GPM and 9/16" lift when running both pumps, but that's probably not worthwhile as 9/16" lift should not be necessary, although it would be awesome.

Here is a model of how it would look.

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Very impressive. My pool would be the talk of the neighborhood! While it's enticing, I'd better stick with the plan, be happy with the expected result and curb the spending.

I need to start number (dollar) crunching to determine a path forward given all the info I've learned. I'll be upsizing the trough drain and effects suction piping and adding an A&A drain. However I may be able to downsize and omit a "home run" for the bubbler piping and upsize and reduce one or two the negative edge return "home runs". Time to sharpen the ol' pencil.

JamesW said:

A single drain in the basin should be enough because it is rated at 196 GPM for a floor installation.

The suction pipe should be 4".

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The A&A drain I was referring to adding is for the water feature suction. I'll stick with a single A&A drain in the basin.

So after many "conversations" and a whirlwind education, here are the latest decisions:

General:

1. Upgrade all pumps to 3 hp XF's

Water Feature System:

1. Install an A&A side suction
2. Upsize the suction piping from 2.5" to 4" (~30 lf)
3. Install Zodiac filters/screens (provided there's enough space on the pad) for each sheer

Negative Edge:

1. Upsize drain piping from 3" to 4" (~55')
2. Add valves accordingly

JamesW said:

I would do (2) 2.5" x 3" Jandy check valves after the pump (not in front of the pump).

I would do a 2.5" x 3" Jandy NeverLube two-way valve before the pump for service.

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Main Pump :

1. Upsize drain piping from 3" to 4" (~50')

I think I captured everything?

JamesW said:

Suction line from the pool drain to the filter pump = 2" or 2.5".
Suction line from the pool drain to the water feature pump = 4"
Suction line from the basin to the Infinity edge pump = 4".
Suction line from the spa drain to the filter pump = 3" or 4".

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With all the back and forth (in my mind), I forgot that we now have filters for the sheers, therefore there is no longer need for a side suction since the line is already stubbed out coming off the main drain. That just saved me a few bills on having to buy a channel drain. For whatever reason they ran a 2.5" line to the drain and then had to add a 2.5"x3" bushing (the size of the outlet). They knew all along that my plumbing plan called for 3". Bottom line is I'll have them add a 4"x3" bushing outside the pool to run 4" to the pump. The original plan for the drain line to the filter pump was 3". 2" scares me a bit but I may opt to drop down to 2.5".

JamesW said:

For the spa, you have to know how many jets and the flow per jet.

For example, if you have 8 jets and 15 GPM per jet, the total flow is 120 gpm and a 3" line will be fine.

The max on a 3" suction line is 136 gpm.

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Originally planned on 3" for the spa. There are only 6 jets but I don't know how to determine the GPM. The jets' piping is 1" coming off a 1.5" header and I'll be having Parajets installed. I'm guessing the 3" will be okay but I think I'm batting .500 in the guessing game.

JamesW said:

They are small and will easily fit.

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It's important that they do. I talked to the PM about these and sent him the a couple images including the dimensions. They've provided a rough draft of where the equipment will reside but it's not to scale, so I'm not sure exactly how it will be plumbed. Regardless, there are two options if there's a space issue. Perhaps they can be elevated on stands of some sort if the pad is too congested or I do have a trick up my sleeve where I might be able to extend the pad to create more space and slide the adjacent travertine walkway that is planned.

JamesW said:

The single bottom main drain with a 4" line going to the water feature and a 2" line going to the filter pump should be sufficient as long as you keep the filter pump line closed most of the time or only slightly open.

The line from the bottom drain to the filter pump can be 2" as you really won't need a lot of suction for the filter pump and you have 2 skimmers to provide most of the suction.

The filter will never need more than about 40 gpm in Pool mode, and that's only if the heater is on.

For regular filtration, you can run at about 20 to 25 GPM 24/7 for best efficiency,

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I now remember you touching on this approach - almost disregarding the drain and letting the skimmers do the re-circ work. Definitely makes sense in order to reduce the size of the drain line. As mentioned, I'm leaning toward 2.5". 2" is the new 1.5" and can have a bad name...

Regarding the bubblers, I plan on keeping them on separate lines so I have more controllability, especially if one, for whatever reason, isn't keeping up with his counterpart.

Duffatola said:

Originally planned on 3" for the spa. There are only 6 jets but I don't know how to determine the GPM. The jets' piping is 1" coming off a 1.5" header and I'll be having Parajets installed. I'm guessing the 3"

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Duffatola said:

Originally planned on 3" for the spa. There are only 6 jets but I don't know how to determine the GPM. The jets' piping is 1" coming off a 1.5" header and I'll be having Parajets installed. I'm guessing the 3" will be okay but I think I'm batting .500 in the guessing game.

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@JamesW Do you feel a 3" drain will be sufficient? Again, I don't know how to determine the GPM per jet.

JamesW said:

6 jets at 20 gpm per jet is 120 gpm total which is less than 138 gpm, so 3" suction is OK.

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10-4. Oddly, I didn't see installation instructions on the parajet section of Paramounts website, only a cutsheet. Regardless, thanks!

@JamesW Almost there with regards to pre-gunite plumbing check. If I opt to stay with 3-2.5" negative edge returns, the PB is planning on using 1.5" "eyeball" jets in the pool wall. I asked about removing the "eyeball" itself to reduce flow restriction and was advised that's not an issue. Question: To provide more flow, would it be better to install Paramount Buzz Top drains as returns where each one provides two ports/sources of water?
You're probably familiar with them... https://www.1paramount.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/BuzztopCutsheet.pdf