What is in my pool!!!

BfreeWV · Jun 8, 2022

Hello All,
I am new to this site and looking for help, desperately!
I'm trying to get my pool open for my daughters to swim but I am having all kinds of trouble. I went to my local pool supplies store and had my water tested in their computer. Based on the results I purchased and used the chemicals they suggested. Now my readings are good when I test, but there is a mysterious white cloud in the center of my pool. If I disturb this white cloud in any way it disperses into my entire pool and makes it so cloudy you cannot see the bottom. The only way I could describe it is it looks like smoke, (or a white gel when not moving) on the bottom of my pool. This stuff is not always just in the center of the pool, if I haven't been running my pump it's just scattered out across my pool in different areas, sort of clumped together, but it's really not bonded together. I have a sand pump filter and I have vacuumed by pool over and over but this substance passes right through my filter back into the pool. I tried putting a sock over my return, and I've tried pantyhose. White substance built up around the top of the pantyhose it was stuck to it, but when I touch the pantyhose it disappeared back into the water. Last night I went out to look with a flashlight and it looked like tiny crystals suspended in the water. I took a video and pictures that I will try to post here. (Not able to add video)

There was a bug floating in my pool during my video so I used it to get my camera to focus.
If anyone has any suggestions or ideas please let me know. I cannot figure out what this is in my pool. P.S. these pictures were taken after the water was disturbed. I'll try to get a picture today of the water I'm disturbed and add it here.

kimkats · Jun 8, 2022

Hi and welcome to TFP! I am sorry to be meeting like this though

Yeah that is something else going on there!

Going to be some questions to get us started on fixing that pool up so you and yours can swim in it!!

What kind of pool is it? You say you have a sand filter. Lets do this:

Create Your Signature - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

That will help everyone coming in to help you see what we are working with at a glance.

Next is how do you add chlorine to your pool?

Can you please list what all they had you add to your pool so we know what you are dealing with.

Can you vacuum to waste?

I have some ideas but would like these base questions answered first.

Kim :kim:

BfreeWV · Jun 9, 2022

kimkats said:
Hi and welcome to TFP! I am sorry to be meeting like this though

Yeah that is something else going on there!

Going to be some questions to get us started on fixing that pool up so you and yours can swim in it!!

What kind of pool is it? You say you have a sand filter. Lets do this:

Create Your Signature - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

That will help everyone coming in to help you see what we are working with at a glance.

Next is how do you add chlorine to your pool?

Can you please list what all they had you add to your pool so we know what you are dealing with.

Can you vacuum to waste?

I have some ideas but would like these base questions answered first.

Kim

Hello Kim,
Wow, I am excited by your response and willingness to want to help me. I greatly appreciate it!
I completed my signature, but I will add some details here as well.
I have an AG, vinyl pool that is ~6,600 gal.
The pool came with a skimmer cartridge filter system, but I converted to a new 14 inch Hydrotools sand pump/filter. The flow rate is 30 gpm. I've had this pool for approximately 3 years and I just added the sand filter about a month ago.
As for chlorine, I used to add it with the plastic bobber, but I can't use it now because it blocks the skimmer to my sand pump and I don't want to do that. Now there is been two ways I've added chlorine, with liquid just pouring it around the edges of my pool, and placing a 3 in tablet in the skimmer.
At the pool store they said I needed the following:
2 lbs. Alkalinity increaser
9 lb calcium increaser
20 oz of stain prevention
32 oz phosphate remover
My Cyanuric acid was high value 87.
To reduce the high acid level I partially drained my pool and added new water. After doing this I added the chemicals from the store.
I'm going to attach a picture of their initial report. I have not had it tested since adding the chemicals.
I did a basic strip test and all levels seemed ok now. The strip test before lined up pretty well with what the store report was.
I was able to get a picture of my pool just now in the daylight to add here. It may be difficult to see but right now the clouds are sort of spread out. I had my pump turned off because we had a storm last night. Usually when my pump is on the circulating pool makes the cloud go to the very center of the pool.
I do not have a vacuum to waste setting on my pump, but there is backwash, rinse, and filtration. Please let me know if I missed anything to help you help me. Thanks so much in advance!

kimkats · Jun 9, 2022

Well good news! You can see the bottom of the pool! That is good news. Now lets get that bad boy clear!

I am going to share a bunch of links with you. Wait until you see how much money we can save you!

Look at THIS link:
Recommended Pool Chemicals Note most of this can be bought at Walmart, Lowes, ect!!! How neat is that!!

This link does all of the math for you for what to add and how much:
PoolMath

Now I do need you to spend a bit more. You need your own test kit. I know, I know..............the pool store will test it for free..........well is it REALLY free when you walk out with your arms full and your wallet empty?? NOPE! We do not sell test kits. We are a bunch of volunteer pool lovers that were pool $tored and found this site that helped us learn how to care for our own pools using our own test kits and stuff from Walmart!

We call the strips "guess strips" as they are even worse than the pool store testing. Moisture, humidity, how you hold it, etc makes them a no go

Here is a link to a couple of the test kits we use:
Test Kits Compared make sure to get the Taylor 2006C (note the C at the end) or the TF-100. They have more of the regents you will need

So what I think is happening in your are on the edge of an algae bloom. What you are seeing the dead algae that your liquid chlorine is killing. We will talk about how to clear it up in a down below.

The tablets you have been using is what pushed your CYA up. From now on lets only use liquid chlorine. You can save the tablets you have left for weekend trips and such.

Please take and pic of your equipment so I can see what is what with it. You say no waste feature? DARN! We will work our way around that some how.

Okay to clear your pool up:
-order test kit asap
-Use pool math to see how much liquid chlorine to add each day to get your FC up 5ppm until you get your good test kit.
-Let me know when the test kit gets there so we can get you started on your SLAM as seen here: SLAM Process

Here is a bit of reading to help you learn about TFP care: TFPC for Beginners

Kim :kim:

BfreeWV · Jun 9, 2022

kimkats said:
Well good news! You can see the bottom of the pool! That is good news. Now lets get that bad boy clear!

I am going to share a bunch of links with you. Wait until you see how much money we can save you!

Look at THIS link:
Recommended Pool Chemicals Note most of this can be bought at Walmart, Lowes, ect!!! How neat is that!!

This link does all of the math for you for what to add and how much:
PoolMath

Now I do need you to spend a bit more. You need your own test kit. I know, I know..............the pool store will test it for free..........well is it REALLY free when you walk out with your arms full and your wallet empty?? NOPE! We do not sell test kits. We are a bunch of volunteer pool lovers that were pool $tored and found this site that helped us learn how to care for our own pools using our own test kits and stuff from Walmart!

We call the strips "guess strips" as they are even worse than the pool store testing. Moisture, humidity, how you hold it, etc makes them a no go

Here is a link to a couple of the test kits we use:
Test Kits Compared make sure to get the Taylor 2006C (note the C at the end) or the TF-100. They have more of the regents you will need

So what I think is happening in your are on the edge of an algae bloom. What you are seeing the dead algae that your liquid chlorine is killing. We will talk about how to clear it up in a down below.

The tablets you have been using is what pushed your CYA up. From now on lets only use liquid chlorine. You can save the tablets you have left for weekend trips and such.

Please take and pic of your equipment so I can see what is what with it. You say no waste feature? DARN! We will work our way around that some how.

Okay to clear your pool up:
-order test kit asap
-Use pool math to see how much liquid chlorine to add each day to get your FC up 5ppm until you get your good test kit.
-Let me know when the test kit gets there so we can get you started on your SLAM as seen here: SLAM Process

Here is a bit of reading to help you learn about TFP care: TFPC for Beginners

Kim

Kim, WOW. Thank you so much! I'm on it.
I'm standing beside my pool right now. I'll snap a pic or 2.
I'm going to order this test kit right now.
One thing my daughter mentioned and I forgot to mention on here is that there was one day last week when the pool was crystal clear and the levels were good. But, it was just one day.
Anyway, I'm going to get started on my homework. Thank you!!!

BfreeWV · Jun 9, 2022

BfreeWV · Jun 9, 2022

BfreeWV · Jun 9, 2022

kimkats · Jun 9, 2022

What a nice set up you have there! Okay so no "waste" function. We will find a work around for that.

Do you rinse your sand after you backwash? If not you should as that "settles" the sand back where it should be.

Where are you getting your liquid chlorine?

When will the test kit get there? Which one did you pick?

The clear day-I wonder if that was right after you added a bit of liquid chlorine and it had done it's job of trying to clear up the gunk in the water.

Can you start up a siphon with a regular water hose with one end in the pool and one end out of the pool? If so then see if you can suck up some of the gunk with the end inside the pool to send it up and out of the pool that way.

Now I don't know how expensive your water is but you could drain most of it AFTER you get your test kit and start all over with your new knowledge and test kit. It is up to you. We can get the water clear but it will take a bit of work and some time. The girls can swim while we are working on it so long as you can see them at the bottom of the pool.

Kim :kim:

mgtfp · Jun 9, 2022

The problem could also be adding calcium increaser (calcium chloride) at the same time as alkalinity increaser (aka plain old baking soda).

Adding both, Calcium and Carbonate, at the same time can create localised Calcium Carbonate oversaturation (even if the overall water parameters are OK), which would result in Calcium Carbonate falling out of solution. Which is science language for creating a cloud.

As Kim already suggested, we need a full set of water parameters with your own test kit to give you proper advice.

mgtfp · Jun 9, 2022

Just saw that the pool store also advised to add phosphate remover. Clouding after adding that is normal, that's how removing phosphates work.

Together with algae, as explained by Kim, and Calcium Carbonate, three potential causes for cloudy water. The two that I mentioned should resolve themselves by filtering, hoping that Calcium and Alkalinity levels turn out to be OK from your own tests.

Algae is very likely there on top of that due to low chlorine at high CYA (going by the pool store test, which needs confirmation). Kim got you there.

kimkats · Jun 9, 2022

@mgtfp please talk to me a bit more about your idea............dumb it down to my Kindergarten level. I really wonder if that is their major problem because of the gloopy look to the particles in the water.

mgtfp · Jun 9, 2022

kimkats said:
@mgtfp please talk to me a bit more about your idea............

My idea is that by adding calcium increaser (which increases CH) and baking soda (which increases TA) at the same time, you will increase your CSI. Once it is all mixed in, CSI might be OK again, but in the area where both chemicals have been added, CSI can be very high for a while, and Calcium Carbonate can just cloud out of the water.

I think that could explain the larger whitish looking particles from one of the pictures.

And phosphate remover will also cloud the water, that's how they work to make the phosphate accessible to filtering. They often also contain a clarifier to speed up the clearing process.

I think, the combination of the above can explain the sudden clouding that appeared in one area of the pool that then dispersed across the whole pool.

Algae is very likely involved, too, assuming that the pool store FC and CYA test is at least in the ball park. But with the puck history of the pool, I assume that CYA is actually rather higher than lower than the store result.

kimkats · Jun 9, 2022

mgtfp said:
phosphate remover will also cloud the water, that's how they work to make the phosphate accessible to filtering. They often also contain a clarifier to speed up the clearing process.

This is my learn for today!!!

I am betting between the two of us we figured the water out-it was a one, two, three, upper cut PUNCH to that water! We will get them all clear and soon!

Nice working with you sir! :hug:

Kim

mgtfp · Jun 9, 2022

My pleasure and honour to work with the great @kimkats

BfreeWV · Jun 10, 2022

kimkats said:
What a nice set up you have there! Okay so no "waste" function. We will find a work around for that.

Do you rinse your sand after you backwash? If not you should as that "settles" the sand back where it should be.

Where are you getting your liquid chlorine?

When will the test kit get there? Which one did you pick?

The clear day-I wonder if that was right after you added a bit of liquid chlorine and it had done it's job of trying to clear up the gunk in the water.

Can you start up a siphon with a regular water hose with one end in the pool and one end out of the pool? If so then see if you can suck up some of the gunk with the end inside the pool to send it up and out of the pool that way.

Now I don't know how expensive your water is but you could drain most of it AFTER you get your test kit and start all over with your new knowledge and test kit. It is up to you. We can get the water clear but it will take a bit of work and some time. The girls can swim while we are working on it so long as you can see them at the bottom of the pool.

Kim

Thank you both so much for your ideas and opinions. I'm dealing with the big dogs, I can tell...

Please hang with me as I am extremely busy at work. Hoping to get some pool work done this weekend.
Btw, I backwashed my filter yesterday and it looked like skim milk coming out. Now that my system is circulating around it clouded my pool so bad you cannot see the bottom.

Orion7319 · Jun 10, 2022

mgtfp said:
My idea is that by adding calcium increaser (which increases CH) and baking soda (which increases TA) at the same time, you will increase your CSI. Once it is all mixed in, CSI might be OK again, but in the area where both chemicals have been added, CSI can be very high for a while, and Calcium Carbonate can just cloud out of the water.

I think that could explain the larger whitish looking particles from one of the pictures.

And phosphate remover will also cloud the water, that's how they work to make the phosphate accessible to filtering. They often also contain a clarifier to speed up the clearing process.

I think, the combination of the above can explain the sudden clouding that appeared in one area of the pool that then dispersed across the whole pool.

Algae is very likely involved, too, assuming that the pool store FC and CYA test is at least in the ball park. But with the puck history of the pool, I assume that CYA is actually rather higher than lower than the store result.

Also the tabs they are recommending in his test results are cal-hypo. According to his print out, they are are now acknowledging the problem with CYA.. and trying to use that to sell very expensive cal hypo tabs.. That was a lot of stuff that can cloud the pool being added at once.

EDIT: to the OP. Don’t use those poollife NST tablets in any dispenser that at any time had the other types of tablets in it. That can cause things to catch on fire and explode and stuff….

mgtfp · Jun 10, 2022

Is there any hint of green in the cloudiness? And is your FC holding?

I suspect that most of that cloudiness is from the calcium increaser and the phosphate remover. Keep filtering and check your filter pressure. You'll have to backwash at some point (you have a sand filter, right?).

Test your pH (if/when FC under 10ppm), and keep pH in the lower sevens to make it easier for Calcium Carbonate to go back into solution.

kimkats · Jun 10, 2022

Share a pic of the water when you get a chance. Do what you can, when you can. Just make sure to keep the FC up in the SLAM level.

BfreeWV · Jun 10, 2022

So I haven't had much time to work on it. My wife's car broke down and I'm working myself silly. Anyway, in in the mornings before work I go out look at the pool check the pump and see what's doing. This morning before work I back flushed because my pressure keeps increasing about 5 or 6 PSI daily. It's crazy.
So I had an idea this morning to put one of my old cartridge filters in the skimmer like it used to be. I had one brand new cartridge filter left so I put it down in there before I went to work. With the sand filter running. The cartridge filter is disconnected and doesn't do anything.
Well, I didn't get home until after dark this evening and this is what I came home to when I pulled that cartridge out of there it looked like a science project gone bad.
By the way I have not seen any green in the water for on the vinyl anywhere. It's all white.

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