Help after hot start and unhelpful pool builder

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Y

YahooWahoo

Member
Apr 17, 2022
23
Hawaii
Pool Size
18000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
My PB insisted on hot start despite my strong concerns. Please no comments on this practice as it has already been done and I just need to be done with the pool builder

They are now telling me they will hand over the pool for me to manage. They have no plan to raise the pH, tell me what is in the pool or give me a guidance as to the pH they are currently measuring. They are telling me it may be ready tomorrow or the next day.

I was planning to do my own pool service, but not sure how to undo a hot start (my test kit doesn’t go to a pH of 4). I can try to get a pool service guy out tomorrow, but I am sure it will cost a fortune at last minute. Is this something I can do on my own? I watched a YouTube video which basically said add a ton of soda ash then a bunch of borax. I don’t have either of these on hand, but I can make a run to the store. Is that all it is?

Appreciate help. I’m stressed, frustrated, and exhausted by a project that didn’t have to be this hard.
 
Welcome to TFP.

What test kit do you have?

You need to be able to test TA and pH. Your TA is probably 0 and you need to get your TA around 50 and then your pH will rise. So testing TA is the important one. Then your pH test will show when your pH is getting into the 7s.

Read TA - Further Reading

Chemicals suggested for raising TA. Their effects are:
  • Baking Soda = big TA change, small pH change
  • Borax = big pH change, small TA change
  • Soda Ash/Washing Soda = big pH change, big TA change.
It is often best to make large TA adjustments in a couple of steps, testing the water after each step, as adding large quantities of baking soda can raise the pH a little and you don't want the pH going out of range.

@mknauss
 
Welcome to the forum.
Allen has you pointed in the right direction. Let us know how things go.
 
Thanks. I have the TFP kit. Cannot measure TA as the pH is too low (red before adding any drops). I added 4 lbs of diluted soda ash. Now the pool is milky. 8h later and the pH is too low to measure and TA cannot be measured still. I understand this is precipitation of calcium. Planning to backwash in the morning, but what else can I do? I would hate to add acid, but I am worried I messed up my new plaster. Thanks
 
Use baking soda to raise the TA. Add 50 ppm of TA worth of baking soda at a time until you can test a TA.
 
mknauss said:
Use baking soda to raise the TA. Add 50 ppm of TA worth of baking soda at a time until you can test a TA.
Click to expand...
The reagents for TA won’t work when the pH is 4. It is red before you add the first drop. Now my pool is milky. Do I add acid and go slower or is there another way to clear the cloudy appearance? Baking soda has a pH around 8. I will never get to a swimable pH with baking soda alone
 
You need to get your TA above zero. The safest way to do that is add sodium bicarbonate, baking soda. Then you can start balancing everything else.
 
mknauss said:
You need to get your TA above zero. The safest way to do that is add sodium bicarbonate, baking soda. Then you can start balancing everything else.
Click to expand...
Okay, but how can I measure TA if the pH is so low? The reagents don’t work. That is why I started with soda ash to bump the pH a bit (baking soda won’t do much for pH) and the alkalinity, but now it is milky. I can add acid, then chellator and go slower on the ph up or just wait. Not sure if my plaster will be damaged by the precipitation of calcium
 
As eluded to above, don't worry about what the TA is right now, just assume that it's zero. Use Pool Math to figure out how much baking soda it takes to add 50 ppm TA and add about that amount.

I did the math for you and it calls for 13 lbs, so I'd add about 10 lbs and let it mix and then see if you can test the TA.
 
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Bama Rambler said:
As eluded to above, don't worry about what the TA is right now, just assume that it's zero. Use Pool Math to figure out how much baking soda it takes to add 50 ppm TA and add about that amount.

I did the math for you and it calls for 13 lbs, so I'd add about 10 lbs and let it mix and then see if you can test the TA.
Click to expand...
If I add 13lbs of baking soda, the pH will still be too low to measure the alkalinity or pH. Then what? Unfortunately, I already added 4lbs of soda ash and pool is milk. I can add acid to clear it fast but then what.
 

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I am not sure how we can explain it any better. Please add baking soda, 10 lbs., mix well, and test the TA (ignore the pH). Report back what you get.
 
You need to start somewhere and getting the TA up is a good place to start. Once you get the TA to a readable level you can start adjusting the other parameters and work on getting the water clear. You're focused on the cloudiness but it's not something to be concerned with immediately, that will be taken care of in time.
 
I really appreciate your insight and assistance and apologies if I am just not getting it. I added the soda ash to increase the alkalinity (was thinking it might get from zero to around 30-40) while at the same time raising the pH a bit. What is the next step if I still can’t measure the alkalinity when the pH is too low for the reagent to work. If I add more baking soda without knowing the alkalinity, I will still have an acid bath with precipitated calcium and could over shoot the alkalinity. Hard to bring down alkalinity without lowering pH.
 
mknauss said:
I am not sure how we can explain it any better. Please add baking soda, 10 lbs., mix well, and test the TA (ignore the pH). Report back what you TA tes
Click to expand...

I don’t think I am explaining this well. The test for alkalinity will not work if pH is less than 4.5. I know my TA is zero (or was before the soda ash), but I cannot measure where it is now as the realest don’t work at a pH of 4. It is red before the first drop added
 
The soda ash you added did not raise your TA above 0. You need to add baking soda as described above to do that. The pH is not your first concern right now. Get the TA above 0.
 
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mknauss said:
Because your TA is still showing 0 or below. You had a negative TA. You need to get it above 0.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I was under the impression that TA cannot be tested with this kit if pH is below 4.5 and that is why the TA test is red from the onset. If it just means it is less that zero, I can work with that. I will take a look in a few hours. Appreciate your help
 
mknauss said:
The TA test is not effected by low pH.
Let us know how it goes.
Click to expand...
Took water to pool store. TA now 60. PH too low to measure. Water still milky. They seems to know less about pool chemistry than I do. Would you add Borax now to increase pH? Will this make the water even cloudier? Would you add a floc or something to help the calcium clear? Thanks
 

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