My dream come true is now my nightmare

Aug 28, 2021
9
Fort Worth Texas
Pool Size
28000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Hi everyone,

I had my pool resurfaced and the job was completed in 4/2021. I live in Fort Worth Tx. I recently moved to Tx from Grand Rapids Michigan. I had a pool in MI but it was one with a pool liner. After purchasing my home in TX I found my pool contractor on Home adviser and he had hundreds of great reviews. I got 3 estimates from different pool contractors between 14k - 21k. I chose the $16,000 guy. I went for pebble Tec mini and full resurface. My pool deck is concrete with flag stone coping. They used grout between coping and waterline and tiles on the wall And mosaics on the stairs and seats/ledges in the pool. There are no cracks in pool deck concrete or flagstone coping so when he asked if I wanted it replaced I said no, I like the color and look of it And it appeared to be the only part of my poo in good condition so I chose to keep it. Fast forward from April 2021 when pool was done to June and July when I am noticing holes opening up in the grout above the tile above the waterline, it also looks like the grout is receding day by day and small pin holes are opening up and now they have grown to be big holes I can easily stick the head of a q-tip in. And small pin holes are opening up between the tile on the wall and getting bigger as well. Some grout is also missing beteen the wall tiles below the water line. I think hmmm well maybe this is normal at first in June but in July as days pass it’s getting drastically worse in all areas where there is grout where water never touches-grout problems above the water line. Aug 2021 now the holes are big and are about every foot around the the pool; I contact the pool guy, he comes out to look and says “hairline Cracks are normal and it’s in the contract and not under warranty.” The thing is there are crack is places but not where the holes are opening up so the contract doesn’t say anything about huge holes opening up in the grout and it receding every few weeks. Then he starts tapping on the flagstone around the pool and says - some places are hollow so there’s movement that caused this, he says - that’s normal and not under warranty. He then says “you wanted to save money I think you said so you didn’t have the coping replaced.” I said very frankly “people who choose pebbletec are not trying to save money, people trying to save money paint their pool or plaster it. I have never once talked with you about getting a deal or saving money By phone or in any of our email and text communication And When you asked if I wanted the copng replaced I said it looks good, and you said ok.” He eluded to that if I would have spend the extra money on replacing the coping there would not have been an issue, yet he never told me there was any issue with the coping or that it would cause my grout to be falling off the wall in 3 months after the resurface Or that it needed to be replaced. If he had told me that I would have agreed. So I call BS. He tells me he can have the guys come back out and put “more grout over the grout.“ Hmm, I say “I don’t think grout over grout fixes the issue, does grout even secure firmly to dried grout?” He says “it’s the best I can do.“ I talk more to him about this coping and ask why he didn’t tell me about this as I relied on him to tell me what needed to be done? No answer. I’m going to give this guy a chance, he’s license, insured. To me that means if he screwed up he has the money to fix it and I shouldn’t have to pay for mistakes his guys made Or settle for excuses or grout over grout. I am prepared to hire an attorney and say “let’s go,” but I know nothing about pools so I wanted to check in with all of you.” I have several pool builders and renovators lined up next week to look at my pool and write up what went wrong and the cost to fix it. I have included pictures but left off the HUGE crack ones for now since he says “hairline cracks those are not under warranty “ but I may add them if you guys need to see them to make a better assessment. Thank you in advance for any help you are able to offer! - Rita
 

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Hi, welcome to TFP! I'm sorry you are having problems with your pool. Disappearing grout is not a hairline crack. Also it looks like there is nothing under the grout at all in some spots. Do you have any photos of the construction while it was being built? It could help us trouble shoot the problems if you do. Its good that you are having others come out to look at the pool. Don't be surprized if some of them are not willing to give an estimate to repair someone else's' mistake. I'm going to ask a couple of our experts to give their opinion as well.
@JamesW @jimmythegreek
 
Hey thanks for replying and trying to help me! I had a different pool contractor out today. He said coping was sound. 1-2 a little hollow, no movement, he said none of them need to be replaced and it’s not causing the grout recession and opening I am seeing. Its shocking how fast the problem is worsening. He said he has never seen a pool with a problem like this happening so soon after resurface. He said he sees issues like this after 7 yrs or more but not after 3-4 months. He seemed hesitant to say for sure but said the grout may have been mixed wrong but he didn’t give many details on this. Added more pics for you to see.
 

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Hey thanks for replying and trying to help me! Getting the estimates to prepare for court in case it’s needed and to try and determine the right way to have this fixed. Added more pics for you to see.
 

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If there’s no flexible expansion joint between the coping and the rest of the deck, the grout may be flaking due to thermal expansion/contraction. Or could just be the grout was light in a few places. But I’d rather have a flexible seal between the coping and the tile.
 
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What does your contract say about quality, dispute resolution, and payment terms including retention?
Great question, I should have posted the contract earlier. I blacked out all identifying information about the pool company. It’s a light contract and not heavy with exemptions on the part of the company leading me to believe most customers have always been happy like the reviews indicate Or he would have loaded up his contracts with exemptions for himself. He did say this has not happened to his other customers so maybe this is just one of those unique/rare problems? He also states he’s still using the same crew of guys when I asked.
 

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If there’s no flexible expansion joint between the coping and the rest of the deck, the grout may be flaking due to thermal expansion/contraction. Or could just be the grout was light in a few places. But I’d rather have a flexible seal between the coping and the tile.
I have never seen a flexible seal between the coping and the tile? I am not sure any pool in my area is built that way. There is always a flexible caulk adding between the coping and the decking material which I do see in this pool.
 
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Great question, I should have posted the contract earlier. I blacked out all identifying information about the pool company. It’s a light contract and not heavy with exemptions on the part of the company leading me to believe most customers have always been happy like the reviews indicate Or he would have loaded up his contracts with exemptions for himself. He did say this has not happened to his other customers so maybe this is just one of those unique/rare problems? He also states he’s still using the same crew of guys when I asked.
I would just ask for them to re-grout the upper section between the tile and the coping to fill in the areas that seem missing and have holes. The holes and the missing spots (where where you can clearly see the original grout) should not be there. The hairline cracks are a tougher issue to get anyone to deal with. I have some over large sections of coping work in a brand-new pool.

On the tile group they may or may not do anything... that's the state of the pool business in Texas these days. Hopefully you have a good company and they address the issues.

If they don't it shouldn't be that hard to ask them what grout was used and you could DIY it and fix the ugly looking spots yourself.

I think the pool looks beautiful in the profile pic and these grout issues are minor so you should be able to get them resolved and move onto enjoying your pool in our Texas heat!
 

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I have never seen a flexible seal between the coping and the tile? I am not sure any pool in my area is built that way. There is always a flexible caulk adding between the coping and the decking material which I do see in this pool.
The flexible caulk gap looks kinda small in the pictures, which is why I mentioned it
 
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If those pics show material under the coping stone then your problem is with the mortar used to attach the coping stone. That is not grout.

Grout is a much softer material then mortar. If they used grout there then the wrong materials were used.

The holes are likely caused by water erosion from water getting under the stones and finding their way out under the coping.

The horizontal cracks are likely caused by lack of an expansion joint between the pool structure and deck. Read Expansion Joints and Coping - Further Reading

Post wider pics, not closeups, of theproblem area. And show what the top where the coping stone and deck come together look like.

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Thank you @ajw22 For your response. I have attached pictures of the side walls of the pool that are not close ups as requested. The 2nd set of pictures are of the coping and deck directly above the eroding grout side wall areas. Picture #1 of side wall matches the area directly under deck/coping with the same picture labeled #1 And so on. The part you have labeled on your informational photo as “expansion joint,” it is this area that was also included in the renovation. They pulled the old material out that was cracked and dried out and replaced it with a soft rubbery type material. We did NOT have the coping replaced or that hard material/mortar in between the flagstone pieces. A lot of the eroding grout above the tile line and under the coping is not near the flagstone mortar joints but if you think water might be getting in through these areas and seeping down and ruining the grout I should probably have the pool contractor come out, chip that material out, and replace it before adding anymore grout over the eroding side wall areas. Take a look at the pics and let me know what you think.
 

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Thank you @ajw22 For your response. I have attached pictures of the side walls of the pool that are not close ups as requested. The 2nd set of pictures are of the coping and deck directly above the eroding grout side wall areas. Picture #1 of side wall matches the area directly under deck/coping with the same picture labeled #1 And so on.
 

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OK, you had your pool rehabed with tile, and grout, and they scraped out and replaced the mastic in your expansion joint.

Nothing was done with your coping or mortar.

It looks like they smeared grout around on top of the mortar between the tile and coping to try and fill deteriorating mortar. That was not a good fix and not lasting.

You should have had the coping removed to properly replace the deteriorating mortar, replace the coping stones that have cracks, and fix the cracks in the mortar joints between the stones.

I just marked up three sets of pictures. But in every case I can see cracks in the stones or mortar joints above where you have deteriorating mortar below the stone. Water is leaking into the cracks and eroding the mortar.

I don't know how well they scraped out your expansion joint and ensured that the deck was not coupled to the pool structure. That may not be as much of an issue as incorrect use and application of grout on the mortar in between the tile and coping.

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OK, you had your pool rehabed with tile, and grout, and they scraped out and replaced the mastic in your expansion joint.

Nothing was done with your coping or mortar.

It looks like they smeared grout around on top of the mortar between the tile and coping to try and fill deteriorating mortar. That was not a good fix and not lasting.

You should have had the coping removed to properly replace the deteriorating mortar, replace the coping stones that have cracks, and fix the cracks in the mortar joints between the stones.

I just marked up three sets of pictures. But in every case I can see cracks in the stones or mortar joints above where you have deteriorating mortar below the stone. Water is leaking into the cracks and eroding the mortar.

I don't know how well they scraped out your expansion joint and ensured that the deck was not coupled to the pool structure. That may not be as much of an issue as incorrect use and application of grout on the mortar in between the tile and coping.

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thanks for this information. I really wish when he came out to evaluate the pool I had been told this needed to be done because I would have definitely replaced it. I was looking to have this renovation last for at least 15 yrs or how ever long these renovations are supposed to last. I think now it’s too late to have the coping replaced because to do that he said all the tile would need to be replaced as well.
Question 1: is this accurate, does all the tile need to be replaced if we now decide to have the coping replaced?

Question 2: Is it possible to have only the flagstone pieces you marked that are cracked removed and replace without replacing all of the coping?

Question 3: If I have the cracked coping pieces removed and replaced and the mortar in between all of the other pieces of coping around the whole pool redone am I at least then in a better place to have this renovation last 10-15 yrs?
 
Q1: I think a good mason can pop the coping stones off without damaging tiles. Pool repair hacks are probably not good masons.

Q2: If you can do 1 then you can do 2.

Q3: My advice is worth what you paid for it. It all depends on the quality of the materials and repairs and how you maintain it over that time period. I have a 20 year old pool with its original tile and coping still in excellent shape.
 
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