No bonding loop from pool

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andrewb_1985

Member
Apr 3, 2018
10
Hamilton, Ontario
Hello all.

This year I am adding a heat pump to my pool and am basically redoing all the plumbing and electrical for my pool. Currently I have no bonding between any component and I would very much like to get this up to code. I have been reading extensively about pool bonding and think I've got my head wrapped around it, however I cannot find any bond wire coming from my pool area. I would also like to add a zinc anode as my pool is SWG.

I would like to know if, without the bond from the pool, it is worth simply bonding the equipment together and adding the anode to bond the water together?. Does this accomplish anything or just a waste of time and money? I don't currently have any corrosion issues but I do want to protect my heater as best I can.
 
What type of deck do you have?

What type of pool light do you have?
 
Being in Canada you need to check what your electrical code requires. I can only state what the USA codes say and that varies by location.

Bonding wire is usually a continuous loop around the pool connected at all 4 corners and everything bonded to that. Can you pull up pavers and install such a loop to then connect your equipment and a water bond to?

Bonding grid under pavers?

Do you need the bonding grid under pavers? Say I do not want the concrete deck and just want a paved deck, would I need the copper or would it be safe to use the steel re bar under the pavers? I would have thought the copper would be required in this case due to corrosion? Any help on this...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
So I got these screen shots of the Canadian electrical code for pool bonding from my electrician friend.

It talks about bonding the pool and everything metallic within 1.5m. Paragraph 1 does say to bond equipment, but specifically mentions lighting equipment. Doesn't say anything about pumps/heaters etc. Also, I don't know what the code said 15+ years ago.

At this point I am not tearing up my pool deck. I don't actually lose sleep at night worrying about my pool bond. I do however worry about premature failure of equipment due to corrosion issues. So if I forget the bond to the pool structure, should I still bond my equipment and water together? Will this actually help with corrosion?
 

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Equipment bonding does not prevent corrosion. Bonding equalizes potential between surfaces and equipment and prevents a person getting a shock from the unequal potential while touching two surfaces.
 
In my reading the general purpose of bonding comes down to 2 things. Electrical Safety and corrosion. I'm told that especially with an SWG I should have proper bonding and a sacrificial anode to prevent corrosion. The anode would be useless if you didn't bond it to the equipment you were trying to protect. So there must be some science out there in support of corrosion prevention through bonding. Or is all that a bunch of marketing hoopla?
And for the safety aspect, I would assume bonding the equipment would still add some layer of protection, even tho the pool structure may still be at a different potential. For the few bucks in #6 wire, I can't see the downside in bonding my equipment together.
 
andrewb_1985 said:
In my reading the general purpose of bonding comes down to 2 things. Electrical Safety and corrosion. I'm told that especially with an SWG I should have proper bonding and a sacrificial anode to prevent corrosion. The anode would be useless if you didn't bond it to the equipment you were trying to protect. So there must be some science out there in support of corrosion prevention through bonding. Or is all that a bunch of marketing hoopla?
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Told by who? The folks selling sacrificial anodes?

Pool equipment rusts and corrodes because of the environment it sits in. You see as many non-SWG pools here with rusted equipment as you do SWG pools.

There are a multitude of reasons your pool equipment will fail and need replacement. The cause being from SWG induced corrosion is low on the probability list.

andrewb_1985 said:
And for the safety aspect, I would assume bonding the equipment would still add some layer of protection, even tho the pool structure may still be at a different potential.
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That makes no sense. By definition if surfaces are at different electrical potential then they have the possibility of a person feeling shock. The shock can be a minor tingle for many people. For a person with a pacemaker it could be a more serious event.

andrewb_1985 said:
For the few bucks in #6 wire, I can't see the downside in bonding my equipment together.
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It's your equipment but there is no function for that wires as you describe.
 
ajw22 said:
That makes no sense. By definition if surfaces are at different electrical potential then they have the possibility of a person feeling shock. The shock can be a minor tingle for many people. For a person with a pacemaker it could be a more serious event.
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Yes, I understand that. But would I be correct in saying that to be shocked from 2 objects at a different potential, I would have to come in contact with both at the same time? I can't touch my pool ladder and my pump 40ft away at the same time. The code specifically states to bond all metallic objects within 1.5m. The logic in this, I would think, is because you can make contact with 2 different objects at the same time in the vacinity. Ie pool ladder and galvanized fence for example. However I can touch my heater and pump and water at the same time, hence why I think I should bond them.

It is possible that all the stuff around my pool is bonded like the handrail, ladder, steel shell and the diving board. But without digging it up I'll never know. I do know they didn't bring that bond over to the equipment area.
I know most people will say if you're not meeting code then it's not good enough. But how many people with older pools are digging it all up to bring it to current code just so they don't get a little tingle? I can't justify that expense not to mention time lost in the pool season.
ajw22 said:
Told by who? The folks selling sacrificial anodes?

Pool equipment rusts and corrodes because of the environment it sits in. You see as many non-SWG pools here with rusted equipment as you do SWG pools.

There are a multitude of reasons your pool equipment will fail and need replacement. The cause being from SWG induced corrosion is low on the probability list.
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So corrosion and anodes are all marketing? I should save my money then?
 
All of the equipment is electrically grounded together which keeps it at equi-potential. Your bonding plan is redundant.

What metal parts do you expect a zinc anode to protect?
 

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Bob/335 said:
There is a difference between grounding and bonding. Someone who doesn’t know the difference should NOT be giving advice!!!
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Care to comment on the original posters question and problem instead of taking a single sentence out of context of the entire discussion?

It was not very precisely worded but not due to a lack of understanding.

If you have something to contribute then dive into.
 
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ajw22, i read that also and raised my eyebrows but i knew what you meant, ;)
OP, yes there is a lot of "bunch of marketing hoopla " all over the internet, heck most days we fight over what day it is.
Me ,,,, i say forget that anode, keep your money to replace / add one to your boat if you have one.
Your pool is like many out there with no bonding. Bonding done wrong and from what i read MANY are, will actually cause problems by adding another electrical source. Also MANY bonds become un bonded ( is that a word ) in short order due to corrosion of the BOND, (connection) because of the joint method used. Then heck breaks loose and your worst off then having zero bond. They end up with a few items there and few over there and some in between, all at different potential. I would tie together all the items on your pad that have a Bond Lug because they are within your reach. Now lets get some warmer weather this way.
 
andrewb_1985 said:
Yes, I understand that. But would I be correct in saying that to be shocked from 2 objects at a different potential, I would have to come in contact with both at the same time? I can't touch my pool ladder and my pump 40ft away at the same time. The code specifically states to bond all metallic objects within 1.5m. The logic in this, I would think, is because you can make contact with 2 different objects at the same time in the vacinity. Ie pool ladder and galvanized fence for example. However I can touch my heater and pump and water at the same time, hence why I think I should bond them.
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I think the thing you are missing in this statement is that the water acts as a weak dielectric and a conductor.. that completes the circuit, And the water is at your pool and flows through your pump. When you touch the ladder you give a potential electrical circuit a path of lesser resistance.. hence the shock. Anyway you can generate electrical transients that will affect the electronics of the equipment if they are not proper bonded and stray current is allowed to find its own path.

AJ.. I thought a proper bonding wire was supposed to be connected to the steel in the gunite shell, is that correct? So if pool was never proper bonded could he add one that connected to a metal stake as close to the pool as possible? I'm sure there must be a simple procedure for installing a bonding wire to an existing pool. I saw one suggestion that recommended using the wire that came from the pool light niche.
 
mguzzy said:
AJ.. I thought a proper bonding wire was supposed to be connected to the steel in the gunite shell, is that correct?
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In a perfect world, yes.

mguzzy said:
So if pool was never proper bonded could he add one that connected to a metal stake as close to the pool as possible?
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No, that does not accomplish anything with the bonding grid. Again, bonding is not about grounding.

mguzzy said:
I'm sure there must be a simple procedure for installing a bonding wire to an existing pool. I saw one suggestion that recommended using the wire that came from the pool light niche.
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Use a pool water bond int he skimmer or a pipe that always has water. If you bond to the water then the water bonds to the gunite shell. That is effectively what the bond on a light nice does. It is the primary water bond.
 
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