pH Rises 0.1 Every Day

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D

DJ de Jesus

0
Jul 24, 2018
28
Fort Worth, TX
Hello, I am new to this Forum. Let me first say many, many thanks for all that you do. This is a wonderful resource which I have used a lot.

I have an issue with continuously rising PH - it rises a little more than 0.1 per day, and I have put in 2 lbs of dry acid or 32 oz of 15.7% MA every other day to keep in balance. I have stopped using dry acid to avoid sulphate accumulation (2 lbs drops my pH 0.2), and will stick to MA (half gallon brings pH down 0.4). Water is crystal clear, no algae today. Just getting old doing this, folks. Any advice on better controlling my pH?

I use 10% liquid chlorine - between 64 - 96 oz per day.
It is over 100 degrees here in Fort Worth, TX, and the pool is constantly exposed to sunlight until about 7 pm, when it gets shaded from the sun. Hardly any rain the past two weeks.

Today's Test Results (Taylor K-2006)
FC: 5.5
CC: 0
pH: 7.7
TA: 85 (8 drops clear, 9 drops red)
CH: 350
CYA: 50

In-ground outdoor plaster pool, 15K gallons, DE filter, built 1996.

Thanks a bunch guys!

DJ
 
Re: PS Rises 0.1 Every Day

Wel;come! :wave:

Sounds about normal to me.

Your TA is 90 -- or even possibly 100. You should keep going even after it turns pale pink to see if it will go Barbie Pink. When you get to the drop that causes no change, you're done, and you deduct that last useless drop from the count. Your high TA reading alone is enough to push the pH up rapidly. That high TA also had to come from somewhere, and it's probably the refill water you add.

My pH doesn't hold steady, but I only have to add acid twice a week, when I top off the water. I add a quart of 31% each time, and my pool is not a whole lot bigger than yours. But I keep my TA down around 60.

You can get aggressive about lowering the TA, or just target 7.2 on the pH every time. It'll bounce back up, but it will take less and less acid each time, and go longer between additions.
 
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Re: PS Rises 0.1 Every Day

Thank you for the quick response. pH 7.2 it shall be. Right now I will pour my remaining 1/2 gallon of 15.7% MA. Should get it down to 7.3 or 7.2. I will test for pH tonight and TA tomorrow. I'll see where it goes from there. More MA should eventually bring down TA - I had not noticed it going down (or rising) as much as pH but it should happen eventually.
 
Re: PS Rises 0.1 Every Day

Welcome to the club, DJ! The pH-rise club!! It's a common topic here, and you're not alone. Some (most?) pools just eat MA. Richard says it best, in his signature:

A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

See how it is once you get your TA down. If it's still too much of a chore for you, there are devices that can automate the addition of chlorine and acid for you, if you're willing to outlay the cash and put up with the inevitable adjustment, maintenance and replacement of such gizmos. Trade offs...
 
Re: PS Rises 0.1 Every Day

I forgot to respond to your comment about fill water. Yes, I suspected that as well. I lose 1/4 to 1/2" of water a day to evaporation in the summer.
From the latest (2017) Fort Worth Drinking Water report:

pH units 7.8 to 8.6
Total Alkalinity as CaCo3 ppm 108 to 145.

I want to use those acidic pucks so bad, but I know I shouldn't.
 
Re: PS Rises 0.1 Every Day

Thank you, Dirk. I love this site.

I had been using chlorine pucks. I think it helped control my pH but stopped it to get my CYA down. How it got down from 100 to 50 in a couple of months of using bleach and not draining the pool is a mystery to me. Anyway, I will need to go out of town for 8 days. I will leave with the pH around 7.2 and I will instruct my house sitter to use pucks till I get back. Don't want her to spill liquid chemicals on herself, especially MA. pH will be over 8 by the time I return but c'est la vie and I will deal with it then.

DJ
 
Re: PS Rises 0.1 Every Day

Many here do just that when they leave their pool. It's an appropriate use of pucks, if you're willing to deal with the fallout. Some just replace a bit of water upon return, or adjust their FC up a bit to accommodate the higher CYA. I didn't want to deal with either, so I went another route (automation). It's a personal choice, based on what you're willing to endure when you get home.

But there's another option I've described to others who travel, though I've yet to hear back how well it worked. You mentioned a house sitter, perfect. Instead of pucks, if you can estimate your daily chlorine dose, based on what you've been doing, you're all set. Say it's two cups of chlorine. You fill a plastic bottle with two cups of chlorine, and write "SUNDAY" on it with a Sharpie. Line up seven more, fill each with two cups of chlorine, and inscribe on each the other days of the week you'll be gone. Show the house sitter how to pour in a bottle in front of the return while the pump is running, and you're good to go. Daily FC level maintained, no added CYA. Unlike MA, chlorine is relatively safe for the sitter to use in this way. They won't have to test anything, or measure out chlorine, or think much about it, or remember any sort of schedule. Just pour it in, one a day...
 
Re: PS Rises 0.1 Every Day

Thank you, Dirk. You have given me 3 options:

1) Automation. Am leaning strongly toward this. Would you recommend an automatic chlorinator and MA feeder / pH adjuster?

2) The Sharpie Method. You may have something here. I use 96 oz of 10% chlorine per day - 1/2 at 1pm (pool in full sunlight) and the rest at 7pm (pool totally in the shade). This gives me a nice, constant 5-7 FC level. This is roughly equivalent to a full jug (128 oz) of Clorox 8.25% Regular Concentrated Bleach. I can buy 8 jugs - one for each day I am gone. I figure I will be ok using one full jug at 4pm each day. I can instruct the house sitter to slowly pour a jug's contents slowly against a return jet at 4 pm every day.

3) The Yucky Pucky Method. I reckon I would need to use 4 pucks (8 oz each) over the 8-day period using a floater. Pool Math says 32 oz of Trichlor will add around 9 CYA (my test shows I currently am at 50). I can set aside 2 floaters with 4 pucks each, put one in the pool, and tell the sitter to remove it and replace with the fresh floater after 4 days so it'll be a constant good dosage. It won't get all used up - I am guessing I will have the remaining equivalent of roughly 4 pucks at the end of 8 days. I can adjust FC higher until I backwash.

Both have advantages/disadvantages. The Sharpie Method has no CYA, but will not retard pH increase, while the Yucky Pucky Method is less maintenance for the sitter, will add around 10 CYA, but may hold back pH increase.
 
Re: PS Rises 0.1 Every Day

For #1, can you fill in your signature with your pool and equipment info, something like mine?

I'm using Pentair's IntelliChlor IC40 and IntellipH with great success. But with your signature others here can guide you to what would be right for your pool.
 
Re: PS Rises 0.1 Every Day

Ha! I thought I did, but it rejected when I tried to save it due to "BB Font", whatever that is. Anyway, I copied from autosave restore and did a paste as plain text. Here it is just in case it still does not show. Just a builder's pool which came with the house. A far cry from the custom pool we had in our previous home.

15K gunite/plaster in-ground. Six jets, one floor drain, two skimmers. Nautilus NS60 60 sq ft DE filter. Pentair 2 HP pump. Polaris 280 cleaner. Taylor K-2006 test kit.
 

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Re: PS Rises 0.1 Every Day

Very nice pool and yard. Congrat's!

Signature came through.

Do you have any plans to add an automation controller for your pool? Generally speaking, some equipment you own/buy should all be of the same brand. Filters and heaters not so much, but if automation control panel, pump(s), SWG, and lights are, then they work together in ways they wouldn't otherwise. Can you list the model of your pump? Is it one speed, two speed, variable speed? Do you know what kind of light(s) you have? Pentair is well respected around here. And works great (I can attest to that). So that'd be one way to go. A Pentair EasyTouch controller, and an IntelliChlor IC40 would work well in your pool, especially if the ET can control your pump (not sure about your 2HP pump, though). Add a Pentair IntellipH acid dosing machine and your chemical handling days are behind you. (That is a wild exaggeration, but I'm on commission! ;) ) Chemicals and pools go hand in hand. Even with automation. But you can greatly lessen the handling, if you want to. I haven't touched chlorine or acid for over a month now (since I installed my IntelllipH).

If Jim happens by... he's the guy to advise about Pentair and models.

If you're not looking to get into automation, then there are other dosing systems (brands) that might me more appropriate for you.

But I'm slightly ahead of myself. Your pool is sporting a high-ish value for TA, which can cause pH rise, or at least amplify it. You could do some work to bring that down, first, before you dive into automation. Conceivably you could bring down the rate of use of acid that way. Here's something you could try first:

Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity
 
Re: PS Rises 0.1 Every Day

Dirk said:
But there's another option I've described to others who travel, though I've yet to hear back how well it worked. You mentioned a house sitter, perfect. Instead of pucks, if you can estimate your daily chlorine dose, based on what you've been doing, you're all set. Say it's two cups of chlorine. You fill a plastic bottle with two cups of chlorine, and write "SUNDAY" on it with a Sharpie. Line up seven more, fill each with two cups of chlorine, and inscribe on each the other days of the week you'll be gone. Show the house sitter how to pour in a bottle in front of the return while the pump is running, and you're good to go. Daily FC level maintained, no added CYA. Unlike MA, chlorine is relatively safe for the sitter to use in this way. They won't have to test anything, or measure out chlorine, or think much about it, or remember any sort of schedule. Just pour it in, one a day...
Click to expand...

Dirk, this is what I did for our pool's high MA demand during a recent trip, and it worked well.

Since I use the reusable HASA bottles of MA, instead of turning in my last batch of empties for new bottles, I saved the empties. I pre-measured MA in my plastic measuring cup and poured it into each of the 4 empties. Then I Sharpie'd the Pour Day on painter's tape and affixed the tape to each bottle (so I could rip it off and return the bottle unblemished).

A neighbor dropped by on the designated days, grabbed the labeled bottle and poured. We did a practice pour before leaving town to confirm pour location and safety.
 
Re: PS Rises 0.1 Every Day

Dirk, see attached. The pump is a Pentair CH11N12A, 2HP, assumed single-speed. For lights I have 2 LED fixtures, one on either end, but don't know the brand.

I don't know enough to answer your automation questions - I don't even know what is out there. When I am ready, I will have a "pool consultant" see me and share their recommendations with y'all. At least today I am armed with the info you gave me. I don't want to get too fancy - all I want for is to reduce my maintenance effort for liquid chlorine and MA.

You are correct, though. I will bring down my TA first then see what I have.

Photo Jul 25, 12 36 43 PM.jpg
 
Re: PS Rises 0.1 Every Day

Dodger, thank you for the great suggestion. However, as an FYI, my house sitter was my nanny when I was a child. Totally trustworthy, she does great at keeping my house clean, turning the lights off and taking care of the dog. I don't want to confuse the old gal too much with pool chemicals or risk harming herself.
 
I know it's possible to automate chlorine and acid dosing without the use of a full-blown automation system. So you could add automation in phases, if you wanted to. I believe your existing pump would not be one that would govern which brand of automation to lean to, not like a $1000 Pentair VS pump would have. So all your options are open, at this point.

I like your plan. Consult before doing anything equipment-wise. But start with TA even before that.

Keep us posted. pH-rise is a big issue around here, affecting many, many pool owners. Results of attempts to control it, successful or not, are appreciated and used by others.
 
Re: PS Rises 0.1 Every Day

DJ de Jesus said:
Dodger, thank you for the great suggestion. However, as an FYI, my house sitter was my nanny when I was a child. Totally trustworthy, she does great at keeping my house clean, turning the lights off and taking care of the dog. I don't want to confuse the old gal too much with pool chemicals or risk harming herself.
Click to expand...

Yes, you have to pick someone who is comfortable with the chemicals, so this won't work for everyone. I just wanted to share that Dirk's suggestion was possible in some situations.

Perhaps the house sitter (nanny) is not the right choice, but there is a neighbor with a pool who has some familiarity and level of comfort with the process....
 
Heck, if I was your neighbor and didn't have a pool, and you gave me the keys to your backyard, a case of beer and eight bottles of chlorine, in the middle of summer, I'd be all over that!
 
Dodger, you are absolutely right. Just want to share with you my situation. Now, she'll put up a pout if a neighbor comes in for the pool. She will say I do not trust her, and it'll take her months to get over it. Anyway, they all have pool men doing maintenance (With pucks! The pool men I know do not want to do liquid chlorine.) Sometimes, dealing with people nuances just has to take precedence.
 
Ha! Dirk, we've considered the case of beer approach, but we are hesitant to give a pass for swimming while we are gone. Even with umbrella insurance. :)
(Not to mention some random bather load that would consume my usually stable SWCG output, and I wouldn't be there to measure it and correct it!)

DJ, I absolutely understand your predicament and would also defer to the house sitter "nuances", as you say.
 

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