pH Rises 0.1 Every Day

Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
4,377
Central California
#21
And I've considered all the things mentioned (though adult daughter vs nanny), and came to all the same conclusions and concerns (liability was a big factor for me, too). Which is why I ended up using automation. Gambling on machines seemed to me to be the lesser of all the evils while away... and I get the convenience perk while home, to boot.

See how I brought that all around, full circle? I'm gunna get that commission, one way or another!! ;)
 

Dodger

Silver Supporter
Sep 17, 2017
487
Silicon Valley, CA
#23
And I've considered all the things mentioned (though adult daughter vs nanny), and came to all the same conclusions and concerns (liability was a big factor for me, too). Which is why I ended up using automation. Gambling on machines seemed to me to be the lesser of all the evils while away... and I get the convenience perk while home, to boot.
Yea, I've been toying with whether to go Stenner or Borates or xxx? I've got my TA controlled between 50-60 and pH still wants to drift higher than 8.0; it rises faster in the spa, causing a slight scale on the spa spillover wall if I don't dose the spa separately and make sure the spillover water is always on the negative CSI side.

I have a partial drain planned this winter because CH is already at 800, putting more pressure on the pH control.

The pool wants 10-12oz MA per day, or multiples of that every 2nd to 3rd day to keep TA in line by driving the pH to the low 7s. Our pool has a bad (MA) drinking habit!
 

Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
4,377
Central California
#24
Yep, mine was up to a 9oz per day habit. Lush! In addition to the chore of it, I didn't like the way that yanked my CSI around, every day, in and out of ideal range. So there's the convenience factor, but also the stability factor.

By that I mean: I use an IntellipH. It's very similar to a Stenner, with a few perks unique to it (or at least challenging to replicate with Stenner). My IntellipH couples with my IntelliChlor, and they are "aware" of each other through the IntellipH controller. The IC shuts down briefly, during each acid injection, so that the two chemicals don't mix in the pipe. The IpH makes use of the flow switch in the IC, so it won't inject without flow. And they both dose small amounts many times a day, and on the same schedule (during the same 7-hour period). So the pH-rise I experience from the SWG, seven hours a day, is being countered by the acid during that same time period. And because I'm dosing chlorine throughout most of the daylight hours, the IC is countering FC loss during the hours it most happens. Which all leads to both FC and pH levels being much more even and stable throughout the entire 24 hour day, than they would be if I just dumped in a daily chunk of chlorine, then 15 minutes later a daily chunk of acid. And way more stable than if I tried to give myself a break by dosing every other day, or every third day.

So I get convenience along with water conditions that (I think) are much better for my plaster and my family (skin, hair, eyes, etc).

I shudder to think what my old plaster, and my old body, were enduring by my pool being dosed once a week by the pool guy...
 
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DJ de Jesus

Active member
Jul 24, 2018
28
Fort Worth, TX
#25
I'm back and I have some numbers to report. I have essentially used pucks for 1 month so I could measure their impact over a period of time and to make it easier on my cranky old housesitter to hopefully maintain the pool's balance while I was out. I knew the pucks would impact TA and pH so I did not adjust before using them. Here are the results:

Aug 1 - before using pucks. I started pucks the next day.
FC: 6
CC: 0
pH: 7.8
TA: 90
CH: 375
CYA: 50

Aug 30 - after using pucks for 1 month.
FC: 8
CC: 0
pH: 7.6
TA: 70
CH: 350
CYA: 70

As expected, TA is down to 70, but I thought the pH would be lower. However, I did not have to use MA at all during this period. CYA is up to 70 but that is ok, I will adjust my FC higher until it degrades. I will now use bleach again and see if the lower TA will retard pH rise. I will report back after I have results I can chew on. I don't know if I want my TA lower than 70. What do you think?
 

Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
4,377
Central California
#26
Great data. I think some here run there TA as low as 50. I don't mess with mine, it seems to be happy in the 50-70 range, and I leave where it wants be.

CH shouldn't have gone down, but 25 is a reasonable margin of error. I don't get much closer than that when I run that test.
 

JimMarshall

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 5, 2017
686
Oil City PA
#27
Heck, if I was your neighbor and didn't have a pool, and you gave me the keys to your backyard, a case of beer and eight bottles of chlorine, in the middle of summer, I'd be all over that!
My retired neighbors wife must think owning a pool is a labor intensive proposition. He tells her he’s going over to take care of the pool, dumps one of my bleach bottles I left, and then sits in one of my loungers reading a book and drinking a couple of the beers for an hour or more each day! Lol
 

Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
4,377
Central California
#28
My retired neighbors wife must think owning a pool is a labor intensive proposition. He tells her he’s going over to take care of the pool, dumps one of my bleach bottles I left, and then sits in one of my loungers reading a book and drinking a couple of the beers for an hour or more each day! Lol
Ha, good one. But who's fooling who? Maybe she's on to him and enjoys her quiet hour just as much!! ;)
 
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DJ de Jesus

Active member
Jul 24, 2018
28
Fort Worth, TX
#29
Great data. I think some here run there TA as low as 50. I don't mess with mine, it seems to be happy in the 50-70 range, and I leave where it wants be.

CH shouldn't have gone down, but 25 is a reasonable margin of error. I don't get much closer than that when I run that test.
Yes, the CH moves between 350 and 375 depending on the mood of Freckles, my basset hound. Hardly ever higher or lower. But testing CH is a breeze compared to testing CYA with that ridiculous disappearing black dot which depends so much on lighting and has an irritating reflection on the surface of the sample which blocks that dot. I usually do both an indoor and outdoor test.

I expect the pH to start climbing again and begin to treat it with MA once more. From what I read, it appears the TA going down as well is not too much cause for worry. The pH and TA sweet spot is what I'm looking for.
 

Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
4,377
Central California
#30
Yes, the CH moves between 350 and 375 depending on the mood of Freckles, my basset hound. Hardly ever higher or lower. But testing CH is a breeze compared to testing CYA with that ridiculous disappearing black dot which depends so much on lighting and has an irritating reflection on the surface of the sample which blocks that dot. I usually do both an indoor and outdoor test.

I expect the pH to start climbing again and begin to treat it with MA once more. From what I read, it appears the TA going down as well is not too much cause for worry. The pH and TA sweet spot is what I'm looking for.
I think you're on the right track. The sweet spots will reveal themselves over time. I have high TA fill water, so pH-rise is expected, especially with my new-ish pebble finish, but not expected to ever stop completely. A lot of us have to deal with dosing MA forever.

Yes, the CYA test is the worst. I test indoors, I work around the reflection issue (you're the first I've heard mention it, but I have it too), by peering at the dot and tube through the "tube" I can form with my hand. I adjust the position of the vial and my hand, relative to the light source, until the dot is not obscured. This diminishes the ambient light, too, however, so who knows what I'm actually looking at. I use the pictures of a valid CYA test result from the Taylor website for reference, which, IMO, were taken indoors with good ambient lighting, just as I am testing.

This is my non-TFP-approved take: I don't like the TFP outdoor-glance method. Too many variables. I do the test indoors under completely repeatable conditions. I expect to eventually identify my level of CYA my way, one that works for my pool. The actual number doesn't really matter. A certain look of the dot will represent the correct level of CYA for my pool. As long as I can dose the correct amount of CYA based on what my dot looks like, then the actual CYA number is academic. As I said, this is not TFP sanctioned, and not a recommendation, but so far it is working in my pool. YMMV.

And even TFP would agree: their numbers and ranges are a guide. Each pool owner needs to determine what works for their pool...
 

Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
4,377
Central California
#34
Dirk, my CYA test's main purpose is to help determine a good FC level. So long as I keep between 7-10, no algae.
Exactly. You don't need to know you have a CYA of 70.233937363, you just need to know it's maintaining the FC level properly. Once you figure out what the dot is supposed to look like to do that, then you'll have the CYA test down pat. Just to be clear, this is not TFPC, it's just my interpretation of how I use and test CYA in my pool...

- - - Updated - - -

I have some jets aimed to just break the surface. The others are point out or slightly down. I figure this helps mix the water more evenly faster when I add chemicals.
It might work like that, but moving the surface like that with your jets will also increase your pH.
 
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DJ de Jesus

Active member
Jul 24, 2018
28
Fort Worth, TX
#37
Ok. I’m back to bleach. Waited for pH to reach 7.8 and got pH an TA as low as I dared. New starting point is as follows. My objective is to find a low-maintenance sweet spot where I do the least dosing of MA. If this fails I will wait for pH to get to 7.8, get it back down to 7.2 with MA, and increase TA with baking soda if it drops some more as a result. I won’t worry if TA drops to 50 or above.

September 5
FC: 7
CC: 0
pH: 7.2 (likely a bit lower. Taylor says it is between 7.2 and 7.0.)
TA: 60
CH: 350
CYA: 60 (have no idea how it could drop 10 in less than a week. Probably a good inch of rain.)