White crystals forming on plaster

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Wanted to get you guys an update. Finally the PB had the plaster guy come out to look at the spa and I gotta say, the response is pretty upsetting. I'll put the text message below. Do I need to just go ahead and send off a sample to a concrete lab to prove the plaster quality issue? Seems like he's dead set on acknowledging the spa needs to be re-plastered. They also brought up the tanning ledge which has no issues as far as I'm concerned. How should I respond?

So ____ came and looked at your spa and pool plaster.

With regards to the spa, where the plaster is chipping away at the bottom of the tile. The tile that was installed there is pushing out probably because of water getting behind it, causing the plaster to chip below it.

You can feel the tile on the side that's closest to the spillover and see that it's pushed out and the grout lines are cracked. We did not install the tile.

___ stated he can come out there next Monday and fix the tile that is popping off and patch the plaster where it is chipped and then acid wash your spa to get all the white calcium nodules that are popping up in there.

He stated that the calcium deposits he see is most definitely caused by pool maintenance and not faulty plaster.

When he comes out on Monday, also they will lower the water below the tanning ledge and acid washed that to see if they can remove some of the calcium buildup on the tanning ledge and bring back the color a bit. Not sure if it'll work, but he will try.

Do you have any of the waterline tile left? They will try to reuse the piece that's there, but sometimes it breaks when they pop it off.

Also, on one of your pool returns that's on the same wall as your patio. We noticed some sort of black staining on the eyeball and leakage onto your pool. Not sure what causes, but I attach photos so that you can take a look at it. It seems to only be on that return.

We will see you next Monday and if anything changes, I will let you know.
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The tile does not cause plaster to lose its' bond and break away. It is the other way around.
The nodules that are present in your pool are not caused by bad water chemistry.
If there is also typical calcium scale, then that IS a water chemistry mistake.
When they come out and lower the water level, then tap around those nodules and listen for a hollow sound. That is evidence that the plaster has lost its' bond to the substrate.
 
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Take some close-up photos when the spa is drained. And of the tanning ledge when the water is lowered.
Also, if the plaster person claims that there is typical calcium scaling in the spa or on the tanning ledge, have him show it to you and then take a photo of the so-called scale and post here. Let's make sure that we are talking about the same thing.
 
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I asked the PB for photos when they came to visit to find these "issues" but they said they had none. So they are coming out next Monday to walk me through the issues.

I will provide a link to some pictures I took today of the tanning ledge (they were too large to attach). While the discoloration looks very similar to the images of calcium scale on plaster I see on Google Image Search, I do not feel a bumpy or different texture on these discolored spots. I'm not sure what caused them, but I will say that the plaster on the tanning ledge has looked spotty ever since day 1 of the plaster application. I can only assume that water got on the surface unevenly and left weird marks.


I'll also provide the response I'm going to send to him, if you want to proof read it and let me know if I can make any improvements I'd appreciate it...

Thanks for all your help so far.

I wanted to address some of the other points from your previous text.

Tile does not cause plaster to lose its bond and break away. It’s the other way around. The nodules in the spa are not caused by water chemistry. We addressed this in our initial communication and I even provided you my water test results, which at the time no one ever said anything about CH levels being too high (they aren’t). There’s several other reasons why this isn’t due to water chemistry:

1. The same nodules in the spa cannot be found in the pool. If it were a water chemistry issue, we would see those same nodules in the pool.
2. Calcium scaling has a much different appearance. It shows up as a giant sheet or cluster. These nodules are sparse, spread apart, and are in the shape of lines. This is due to very tiny cracks in the plaster. Calcium scale simply does not form like this.
3. When I drained the spa to investigate the nodules (photos were provided months ago), I observed two things: 1) The area around the nodules stayed wet while the unaffected areas of the plaster were dry, indicating water getting behind the plaster and 2) knocking around the nodules produced a hollow sound, indicating that the plaster has lost its bond to the substrate.

Concerning the tanning ledge: I have not personally observed any calcium build up. This is why I asked for photos or for it to be pointed out to me. We can talk more about this on Monday, but the tanning ledge has some discoloration that has been there since the pool was plastered and for that reason I don’t consider that calcium build up.

Regarding the discoloration on the eyeball: That eyeball is not a pool return but rather where the water from the fill line enters the pool. It’s likely copper from the city water that has created a stain on the pool, but I have not made time to test it. Either way I don’t think it’s related to the plaster defects in the spa.
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That is a good letter.
There are two different plaster issues occurring in your pool; "White soft spotting" and "calcium nodules." Neither are caused by bad water chemistry. Here is some info that could also be included in your letter.

Calcium scale is rough to the touch and a uniform deposit on the surface. The white spots in your tanning ledge are likely to be somewhat smooth and in spots and streaks indicating that it is not calcium scale.

It is very unlikely that an acid wash will remove the white spotting. If the white spotting was calcium scale, then an acid wash would easily and quickly remove the scale. I believe power sanding would be necessary to restore the original color.

The white spots are caused by soft porous spots in the plaster surface.
The below links will explain why white spotting sometimes occurs on pool plaster.

White Spotting of New Plaster Pools

The problem of plaster spotting has been an ongoing puzzle and controversy in the swimming pool industry for over three decades. The generally round, smooth-yet-unsightly white soft spots in new plaster pools have long been a source of contention among pool plasterers, and pool chemical service...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Why Colored Plaster Turns White

Plaster colors can fade or turn whitish for a handful of preventable reasons. First off, scale can be deposited onto pigmented plaster surfaces by out-of-balance pool water. As is widely known, calcium scale makes the surface rough and turns it white, and acid washing is often the remedy...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
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Small update. Still struggling with the pool builder on the scheduling side of things, they are taking forever. I did have one PM come by to tell me that he recommended an acid wash, to which I responded by saying that if the issue is structural, this won't get rid of the cracks, and I suspect the nodules would come back again. He reiterated that the plaster guy still believes it's a chemical issue. I told the PM that the plaster guy needs to then explain the discrepancy between the pool and the spa; there are no nodes in the pool but they exist in the spa.

He said either way he can't get the plaster guy over there unless he has some work to do (???), so he said at the very least he needs to have him do the acid wash. I told him that I wanted his plaster guy to reevaluate the issue and address the discrepancy before any work starts. I honestly don't want just an acid wash since I don't feel like that will address the issue. They don't seem to be very flexible about it and I also can't help but feel like the plaster company is acting in bad faith just to get out of doing warranty work.

Anyway, we'll see how it goes in a few more weeks/months when they finally get over here again, but just a lot of runaround and silly accusations about water chemistry.
 
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@onBalance do you have the name of the concrete lab I can send a sample to? I don't remember if you provided that. I think I want to go ahead and get that started. I'll also need to know how to sample the plaster. I remember you said to unscrew and remove the drain cover. Do I use a chisel to cut a square piece out?
 
Yes, remove the drain cover in the spa and obtain a chunk of plaster ( can be in several pieces). At least two cubic inches.
For now, I will have you send the first sample to my onBalance lab. Check your private message board.
 
onBalance said:
At least two cubic inches
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I assume you mean collectively? I don't know if there's a solid cubic inch I could cut out. But I'm guessing you just mean all the pieces should add together to form about two cubic inches.

That seems like a lot of plaster, and I don't know how deep the actual plaster itself is before I hit the gunite. Will there be any issue if concrete is exposed under the drain cover?
 
One cubic inch may be enough.
If you expose the gunite, then use some cement epoxy to cover that area.
We will analyze the "calcium chloride" content. If the plaster contain that, it would violate the instructions from pigment manufacturers' warning that no calcium chloride should be added. That may provide you with enough evidence to force the plasterer to honor the warranty.
 

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onBalance said:
One cubic inch may be enough.
If you expose the gunite, then use some cement epoxy to cover that area.
We will analyze the "calcium chloride" content. If the plaster contain that, it would violate the instructions from pigment manufacturers' warning that no calcium chloride should be added. That may provide you with enough evidence to force the plasterer to honor the warranty.
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Thank you, and I'm sorry for the continued questions. I'm a real idiot when it comes to this stuff. I've never had to buy cement epoxy before. Is it something like this at Lowes?


There's also JB Weld but it doesn't specifically say concrete or cement on the packaging.
 
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