Questions on controling pH/TA as a new pool owner

Jerryxe

Active member
Sep 10, 2024
35
Las Vegas, NV
Pool Size
13300
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-20
Hi,

We have a new build in-ground pool with SWG for ~1 months, plaster.

My first time testing of water quality shows pH 8.5, TA 310, FC 3.6, CYA 51. So follow the poolmath instruction, I added 3 gallon of Muriatic Acid in 2 days, and wait for 1-2 day, then tested and got: pH 7.7, TA 157. Should I continue to add Muriatic Acid to get TA level to 50-90?

I also noticed the CH level increased from 371 to 395 then to 459. Should I be concerned? Is the CH caused by Muriatic Acid?

I also added 3-4 lb stabilizer to increase CYA, from 51 to 60 now, and should I continue to add stablizer to get it to 70-80 ideal range?

Thanks!
 
Welcome to TFP! :wave:

Tell us a bit more about your pool, pool equipment (manufacturers and model numbers and test kit by filling out your signature. Be specific in the details of the equipment.

It appears your test results are from a pool store. Pool store results have proven to be inaccurate and not repeatable.
Get one of the recommended test kits an take control of your pool.
Test Kits Compared
 
Welcome to TFP! :wave:

Tell us a bit more about your pool, pool equipment (manufacturers and model numbers and test kit by filling out your signature. Be specific in the details of the equipment.

It appears your test results are from a pool store. Pool store results have proven to be inaccurate and not repeatable.
Get one of the recommended test kits an take control of your pool.
Test Kits Compared
Just added signature. Thanks for the recommendation!
 
I am using test strip and WaterGuru Sense 2 C5 test cassette. Also have the Taylor 2006C kit, but haven't used it yet.
Please use the Taylor 2006C kit and report its results. It is one of the standards we trust at TFP. Your others... not so much.
 
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Thanks for the signature!

Only use your K-2006C for reporting test results here.
If you don't already have a SpeedStir, seriously consider getting one. It makes testing so much easier and consistent.

Is the 12,600 gallons including the spa or just the pool?

Your IC-20 is undersized for your pool volume. We recommend a SWG that is at least 2x the pool volume.
When your present IC is depleted, consider replacing with an IC-40.

Are you using PoolMath?
Download it and sign in using your forum email and password. Then go to settings and share your results to your forum account. This worksfor the paid and free versions of the app - but the free version only keeps one log entry where the paid version allows storage of all log entries and multiple pools or fill water results.

Do you have a water softener and is it hooked to your autofill line?
With the hard water in Vegas, rising CH do to evaporation/refill will be an ongoing issue.
 
Thanks for the signature!

Only use your K-2006C for reporting test results here.
If you don't already have a SpeedStir, seriously consider getting one. It makes testing so much easier and consistent.

Is the 12,600 gallons including the spa or just the pool?

Your IC-20 is undersized for your pool volume. We recommend a SWG that is at least 2x the pool volume.
When your present IC is depleted, consider replacing with an IC-40.

Are you using PoolMath?
Download it and sign in using your forum email and password. Then go to settings and share your results to your forum account. This worksfor the paid and free versions of the app - but the free version only keeps one log entry where the paid version allows storage of all log entries and multiple pools or fill water results.

Do you have a water softener and is it hooked to your autofill line?
With the hard water in Vegas, rising CH do to evaporation/refill will be an ongoing issue.
Good point on the pool volume. Just did an accurate measurement and calculation. It's 12500 gallon of the pool and 800 gallon of the Spa, so total is ~ 13,300 gallon.

No wonder the pool builder said I should turn on IC-20 SWG to be 80% or even higher. I will definitely change to IC-40 when the IC-20 is depleted. Thanks!

I do use Poolmath and subscribed. Now I need to get used to Taylyer 2006C test to get accurate number, so to know what chemical to add. Thanks!
 
So about 13,300 gallons.
Update your signature with that info.

To keep up in summer, you would need to run the SWG at 65%-70% 24 hours daily to keep up using an IC-20.
It's hot in Vegas, just like here in the Phoenix area. A SWG rated for 2 times the pool volume is needed - larger is better.

You can run at a lower rpm - as long as the SWG flow switch is closed - and only run higher rpm when you need to run the IFCS. Many of us run 24/7 year round. My schedule is 20 hours at 1200 rpm and 4 hours at 2900 rpm (split in two 2 hour pieces, AM and PM). This allows the SWG to produce chlorine all day according to the percentage set on the SWG.

In PoolMath sign in using your forum email and password, go to settings, go to sharing, link from TroubleFreePool.com profile

Add a SpeedStir to your Christmas list. 😉
Also a K-1766 Salt test kit to accurately test salt content.
 

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So about 13,300 gallons.
Update your signature with that info.

To keep up in summer, you would need to run the SWG at 65%-70% 24 hours daily to keep up using an IC-20.
It's hot in Vegas, just like here in the Phoenix area. A SWG rated for 2 times the pool volume is needed - larger is better.

You can run at a lower rpm - as long as the SWG flow switch is closed - and only run higher rpm when you need to run the IFCS. Many of us run 24/7 year round. My schedule is 20 hours at 1200 rpm and 4 hours at 2900 rpm (split in two 2 hour pieces, AM and PM). This allows the SWG to produce chlorine all day according to the percentage set on the SWG.

In PoolMath sign in using your forum email and password, go to settings, go to sharing, link from TroubleFreePool.com profile

Add a SpeedStir to your Christmas list. 😉
Also a K-1766 Salt test kit to accurately test salt content.
Thanks! I will follow your suggestion on the pump schedule. I have 2 Pentair IntelliFlo3 VSF pumps, and I noticed when I turn on at 3000 RPM for noth, the pentair screenlogic app shows, one pump is moving 115 gallon per minute, and another pump is moving 55 gallon per minute. Baed on this info, do you think 20 hours at 1200 RPM (on both pumps), and 4 hours at 2900RPM, still the best for my pool? (Really hope if there is a more scientic way to decide on it...)

As for the poolmath/forum, I use the same username/password for both app and forum. I don't see an option to link TFP profile, does that mean it's already linked?

And yes, I got SpeedStir today, and did my first Taylor test, that's interesting to learn it. Will order a K-1766 sale test kit later (currently my Pentair IC-20 can show salt level, and I have a electric salt tester, but guess still need the test kit to compare).
 
What are both pumps doing? For the pump doing the chlorination, run as slow as possible 24/7. Run any other pump for cleaning, water features, as little as possible.

Big VS pumps can push a lot of water, but that is rarely needed. The benefit of a large VS pump is that it can push a good amount of water for very little electrical $$.
 
What are both pumps doing? For the pump doing the chlorination, run as slow as possible 24/7. Run any other pump for cleaning, water features, as little as possible.

Big VS pumps can push a lot of water, but that is rarely needed. The benefit of a large VS pump is that it can push a good amount of water for very little electrical $$.
Oh, pump 1 is labled "Spa pump", and has these circuits: Spa, Pool, Jets, Spillway. Pump 2 is labled as "Pool pump" and only has "Pool" circuit. Both are Pentair IntelliFlo3 VSF pump.

I noticed that when I set pump 1 speed to be below 1700RPM, GPM will not show up (if set to 1700 RPM, GPM is 20GPM), and will get error: "chloriner low flow" (I can set pump 2 to be 1200RPM/31GPM and even lower speed), does this mean only spa pump is connected to SWG?

Jim on another thread said if wired properly, SWG would only work in Pool/Spa Circuit, so I should set Pool circuit to run at low speed and for 24*7 to do chlorination, and have pump 1 and pump 2 to run at high speed for a few hours a day?

I have in-floor cleaning heads, do you know if they connect to specific circuit? (Pool circuit?)
 
Last edited:
Do you have automation?
If so, add name and model to your signature.

The IFCS doesn't hook to an automation circuit normally.
Are there cleaning heads inboth pool and spa?

Usually the SPA pump is only for the spa. It recirculates water from/to the spa

Which pump runs thru the filter, SWG and to the IFCS?
This would be your main pump.
It is also usually plumbed thru the heater so you have the option to heat both the pool and the spa.
The automation "should" switch between pool and spa mode a couple times daily to refresh the spa water for about 15 minutes each time.

Once you determine which pump runs water thru the SWG, you can determine the minimum speed to run that pump to allow the SWG flow switch to close. We will discuss that further after we know more about your system.

Post a few pics of your equipment pad from a few different angles so we can see your setup. Then we can better advise.

As for your PoolMath logs - no they aren't showing.
Open PoolMath, click the gear icon, scroll down to Sharing and click "Link from ...." and then click the checkmark to save.
 
Do you have automation?
If so, add name and model to your signature.

The IFCS doesn't hook to an automation circuit normally.
Are there cleaning heads inboth pool and spa?

Usually the SPA pump is only for the spa. It recirculates water from/to the spa

Which pump runs thru the filter, SWG and to the IFCS?
This would be your main pump.
It is also usually plumbed thru the heater so you have the option to heat both the pool and the spa.
The automation "should" switch between pool and spa mode a couple times daily to refresh the spa water for about 15 minutes each time.

Once you determine which pump runs water thru the SWG, you can determine the minimum speed to run that pump to allow the SWG flow switch to close. We will discuss that further after we know more about your system.

Post a few pics of your equipment pad from a few different angles so we can see your setup. Then we can better advise.

As for your PoolMath logs - no they aren't showing.
Open PoolMath, click the gear icon, scroll down to Sharing and click "Link from ...." and then click the checkmark to save.
Just updated. I do have Pentair Screenlogic2 EasyTouch 4 automation, and controlled on mobile app and PC app.

I will get some photos tomorrow and post here. Thanks!

I checked my PoolMath app, and in setting, I already have the "Link from TroubleFreePool.com user profile" checked... Just uncheck and checked again and saved.
 
I checked my PoolMath app, and in setting, I already have the "Link from TroubleFreePool.com user profile" checked... Just uncheck and checked again and saved.
Your logs still aren't linked. Post about this issue in the PoolMath forum.
You will likely need to send an email to [email protected] as they may need personal info that you don't want to post to the forum for all to see.

Ok, you have an EasyTouch PSL4 w/ScreenLogic 2
Pics of the pad will also help.
 
Your logs still aren't linked. Post about this issue in the PoolMath forum.
You will likely need to send an email to [email protected] as they may need personal info that you don't want to post to the forum for all to see.

Ok, you have an EasyTouch PSL4 w/ScreenLogic 2
Pics of the pad will also help.
Thank you! Here are the photos of my pool equipments.
- Pump 1 (The one on bottom of photos, or close to where I stand), it's label "Spa" by builder:
- Inflow has 3 sources: Spa drain, Pool drain, and skimmer suction
- Outflow goes to the big filter, and then go to the heater, and then go to the SWG
- Pump 2 (The one close to the house wall), it's label "Pool" by builder:
- Just have one inflow and one outflow, cannot see how it's connected underground

Both are Pentair IntelliFlo3 VSF pump, but pump 2 seem move much more water at the same speed (e.g. at 2000 RPM, pump 1 uses 406w and moves 26 GPM, and pump 2 uses 569w and moves 76 GPM). I doubt IFCS is connect to pump 2?

Please share your thoughts and the best set up for regular running.

(I current set the default "Pool" circut to run at low speed on pump 1 24*7, but not on pump 2. And also I have a feature circut "Pool High" set to run at high speed on both pump 1 and pump 2 for 6 hours each day).

1.jpg2.jpg3.jpg4.jpg5.jpg6.jpg7.jpg8.jpg9.jpg
 
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My present theory is the pumps are mislabeled.

If you run only pump closest to house wall, tell us what happens.
My theory is only the spa jets will work. Is there water being pumped anywhere back into the pool?

If pump closest to house only returns water to the spa, then the pump farthest from house wall is the main circulation pump as it runs thru the filter, heater and SWG.
There is NOT a heater bypass - having a heater bypass will allow more flow at the same rpm or the same flow at a lower rpm than present configuration. As you're aware, running at a lower rpm will save in electrical power costs.

On the suction side -
  • Set the POOL DRAIN (this is the main drain in pool bottom) to about 20% open and the SKIMMER to about 80% open. This will skim better and not allow as much debris on the pool water surface settle to the bottom.
On the return side -
  • Set QWIKSKIM to about 10% open and INFLOOR to about 90% open. This will still provide enough water to the popups at higher rpm to clean the pool floor while sending a little return water at both high and low rpm to the venturi skimmer. This will help the skimmer skim better at low rpm.
The reason I used the word "about" is because every pool is different. You will need to find out what works best for you and your pool. The percentages I mentioned are starting points. Up to you to fine tune.

Heater bypass
Having the heater bypassed, except when actively heating the pool and/or spa, will allow running the pump at a lower rpm and still satisfy the SWG flow switch. I highly recommend you look into installing a heater bypass - use the diagram in the above linked article. Chances are you will only heat the spa - especially after you heat the pool the first few times and see how much your gas bill is. o_O

SWG
To determine the lowest rpm you can run the SWG.... lower the pump rpm until the SWG no flow light comes on. Increase the rpm until the no flow light goes off. Then add 200 rpm to that rpm to account for tge filter getting dirty. This is your minimum rpm for the SWG to produce chlorine. If you set this up now and add the heater bypass later, you will need to do this again with the heater bypassed.

Pool Mode - water comes from pool suction (main drain and skimmer) and returns to the pool thru the infloor and quikskim.

Spa Mode - water comes from the spa suction (spa drain) and returns to the spa thru the spa returns (presently labeled as spa jets.

Spillover Mode - water comes from pool suction and returns to spa - creating the spill over effect. For normal operation, Spillover Mode should be programmed to run twice daily for 15 - 20 minutes to refresh the spa water.

Someone much better versed in Pentair EasyTouch automation can better walk you thru setting up your automation for best efficiency and also add feature circuits. Right now you have two automated valves - one on the suction side and one on the return side - which allow switching between modes.
 
My present theory is the pumps are mislabeled.

If you run only pump closest to house wall, tell us what happens.
My theory is only the spa jets will work. Is there water being pumped anywhere back into the pool?

If pump closest to house only returns water to the spa, then the pump farthest from house wall is the main circulation pump as it runs thru the filter, heater and SWG.
There is NOT a heater bypass - having a heater bypass will allow more flow at the same rpm or the same flow at a lower rpm than present configuration. As you're aware, running at a lower rpm will save in electrical power costs.

On the suction side -
  • Set the POOL DRAIN (this is the main drain in pool bottom) to about 20% open and the SKIMMER to about 80% open. This will skim better and not allow as much debris on the pool water surface settle to the bottom.
On the return side -
  • Set QWIKSKIM to about 10% open and INFLOOR to about 90% open. This will still provide enough water to the popups at higher rpm to clean the pool floor while sending a little return water at both high and low rpm to the venturi skimmer. This will help the skimmer skim better at low rpm.
The reason I used the word "about" is because every pool is different. You will need to find out what works best for you and your pool. The percentages I mentioned are starting points. Up to you to fine tune.

Heater bypass
Having the heater bypassed, except when actively heating the pool and/or spa, will allow running the pump at a lower rpm and still satisfy the SWG flow switch. I highly recommend you look into installing a heater bypass - use the diagram in the above linked article. Chances are you will only heat the spa - especially after you heat the pool the first few times and see how much your gas bill is. o_O

SWG
To determine the lowest rpm you can run the SWG.... lower the pump rpm until the SWG no flow light comes on. Increase the rpm until the no flow light goes off. Then add 200 rpm to that rpm to account for tge filter getting dirty. This is your minimum rpm for the SWG to produce chlorine. If you set this up now and add the heater bypass later, you will need to do this again with the heater bypassed.

Pool Mode - water comes from pool suction (main drain and skimmer) and returns to the pool thru the infloor and quikskim.

Spa Mode - water comes from the spa suction (spa drain) and returns to the spa thru the spa returns (presently labeled as spa jets.

Spillover Mode - water comes from pool suction and returns to spa - creating the spill over effect. For normal operation, Spillover Mode should be programmed to run twice daily for 15 - 20 minutes to refresh the spa water.

Someone much better versed in Pentair EasyTouch automation can better walk you thru setting up your automation for best efficiency and also add feature circuits. Right now you have two automated valves - one on the suction side and one on the return side - which allow switching between modes.

My present theory is the pumps are mislabeled.

If you run only pump closest to house wall, tell us what happens.
My theory is only the spa jets will work. Is there water being pumped anywhere back into the pool?

If pump closest to house only returns water to the spa, then the pump farthest from house wall is the main circulation pump as it runs thru the filter, heater and SWG.
There is NOT a heater bypass - having a heater bypass will allow more flow at the same rpm or the same flow at a lower rpm than present configuration. As you're aware, running at a lower rpm will save in electrical power costs.

On the suction side -
  • Set the POOL DRAIN (this is the main drain in pool bottom) to about 20% open and the SKIMMER to about 80% open. This will skim better and not allow as much debris on the pool water surface settle to the bottom.
On the return side -
  • Set QWIKSKIM to about 10% open and INFLOOR to about 90% open. This will still provide enough water to the popups at higher rpm to clean the pool floor while sending a little return water at both high and low rpm to the venturi skimmer. This will help the skimmer skim better at low rpm.
The reason I used the word "about" is because every pool is different. You will need to find out what works best for you and your pool. The percentages I mentioned are starting points. Up to you to fine tune.

Heater bypass
Having the heater bypassed, except when actively heating the pool and/or spa, will allow running the pump at a lower rpm and still satisfy the SWG flow switch. I highly recommend you look into installing a heater bypass - use the diagram in the above linked article. Chances are you will only heat the spa - especially after you heat the pool the first few times and see how much your gas bill is. o_O

SWG
To determine the lowest rpm you can run the SWG.... lower the pump rpm until the SWG no flow light comes on. Increase the rpm until the no flow light goes off. Then add 200 rpm to that rpm to account for tge filter getting dirty. This is your minimum rpm for the SWG to produce chlorine. If you set this up now and add the heater bypass later, you will need to do this again with the heater bypassed.

Pool Mode - water comes from pool suction (main drain and skimmer) and returns to the pool thru the infloor and quikskim.

Spa Mode - water comes from the spa suction (spa drain) and returns to the spa thru the spa returns (presently labeled as spa jets.

Spillover Mode - water comes from pool suction and returns to spa - creating the spill over effect. For normal operation, Spillover Mode should be programmed to run twice daily for 15 - 20 minutes to refresh the spa water.

Someone much better versed in Pentair EasyTouch automation can better walk you thru setting up your automation for best efficiency and also add feature circuits. Right now you have two automated valves - one on the suction side and one on the return side - which allow switching between modes.
Thanks!! Let me do the test to figure out some, and report back!
 
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