Opinions / Experience with Ramuc HI-BUILD, EP and INSL-X

[pmh3986]

Hello, I found some very old threads with broken links, but am having trouble coming to a decision or finding much information at large. Hopefully somebody here has some recent experiences to offer.

I have a "Hybrid Pool" built in 1979 - concrete bottom and fiberglass sides, which aside from needing a paint job, is in great shape. I'm comfortable with all the logistics of safely draining, prepping etc but am trying to decide on which product to use. I hope to use the same product on both the concrete floor and fiberglass walls/steps.

I find all kinds of google searches saying INSL-X is the "top rated" and I can get that locally. But RAMUC has also come highly recommended. I sent some paint samples to RAMUC for testing and found the current coating on my pool is Epoxy so I can use their HI BUILD or EP. Presumably I could use any epoxy paint.

HI-BUILD claims up to 8yrs service life. EP claims 3-4 years. INSL-X claims 3-5 yrs.
But HI-BUILD is 2.5x more expensive and I can't find any reviews online from people who have actually used the stuff as to longevity. If I can get 7-8 years rather than 3-4, it's probably worth it.

Anyway, just looking for some real-world input from people who have used these products on fiberglass, concrete or hybrid pools.

Thanks!
Paul

 

[PoolStored]

Sorry you haven't gotten a response...maybe a bump will help...

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Most people who come here with hybrid pools want to know how to fix the leaks or convert them into a different pool type. No one installs hybrids anymore. As far as which paint to select, not much help to find here because TFP never recommends painting a pool. In your case, with such an old pool type, paint is probably the only choice and so you’re just going to have to take a chance on what you think is best and let us know how it goes. We’re happy to help with chemistry and equipment issues, but paint is just not something TFP does.

Do keep this thread updated as any info you provide will eventually help someone else.

Good luck.

 

[pmh3986]

Thanks! Yah, given the hybrid nature, can't really re-plaster the thing, and I understand that due to the nature of how the walls are built and installed, converting it to a vinyl liner is also out of the question. Much of the old epoxy paint has faded off, lots of bare fiberglass and concrete areas, sorta constantly looks dirty, I think a good coat of epoxy will do it wonders. It's not leaking, there are no visible cracks, and I have a good sense of the surrounding water table and plan for opening the HSRV as I drain it, so I think it should work out ok. I've settled on Olympic Zenon epoxy which according to he manufacturer is fine on both the fiberglass walls and concrete bottom. I'll take pix as I progress and maybe do a writeup once done in case it can help anybody else.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

People have converted hybrid pools into gunite. If the floor is still structurally sound then all the forming sub has to do is drill and epoxy a rebar cage into it and then a gunite crew can shoot the walls. The old walls would have to be removed and the plumbing would have to be redone but, in the end, it’s doable. Usually that’s a decision that has to be made once the walls start leaking at the seals and there’s no hope of repair.

Good luck.

 

[pmh3986]

sounds expensive!
if one were going to that extent (removing the walls, deck and plumbing, leaving just the concrete floor) then wouldn't installing wall panels just like a vinyl lined pool be an option too?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

sounds expensive!
if one were going to that extent (removing the walls, deck and plumbing, leaving just the concrete floor) then wouldn't installing wall panels just like a vinyl lined pool be an option too?

That could be an option too. One of our members converted their hybrid into a gunite pool and I don't think they removed the walls. So the pool size shrunk a bit, but there was no excavation needed. So there's lots of ways to redo an old hybrid pool ... if you're willing to spend the money.

 

[Newdude]

converting it to a vinyl liner is also out of the question.

Many have dropped a liner in a hybrid pool. If it's structurally sound, it's the easiest and cheapest fix by a mile.

Well. Paint is the cheapest but it's not a fix. Due to EPA changes to the VOCs, it's just not durable anymore and many see chalkiness by the end of the 1st season. It often now needs to be redone yearly.

 

[pmh3986]

Many have dropped a liner in a hybrid pool. If it's structurally sound, it's the easiest and cheapest fix by a mile.

Interesting. My understanding from advice I've received was that the walls of these pools wouldn't be sturdy enough. I'd love to see some examples of others having done this successfully.

 

[Newdude]

My understanding from advice I've received was that the walls of these pools wouldn't be sturdy enough.

Think that through. A liner isn't strong enough, but paint is ?

Ar least the liner can flex a little if there is any give in the wall. Paint will crack and leak with any movement whatsoever.

 

[pmh3986]

Think that through. A liner isn't strong enough, but paint is ?

I'm saying that from what I've been told, the walls of this type of pool are not generally strong enough to support a new track and hanging a liner from it. One could potentially destroy the walls by trying to find out. I've only had one expert tell me as much though (the only expert I could find). I'm sure a vinyl liner would hold up better and look good for longer than epoxy.

My pool doesn't seem to be leaking at all, which is the good news. but it looks terrible with many patches of the old epoxy coating worn away (from what I can gather, a previous owner re-coated with epoxy 10+ years ago. The coating I've settled on (neither Ramuc nor INSL-X as in my OP subject line) - Olympic Zeron - claims to have an 8yr service life. Time will tell! A gunite conversion (learning about this right now reading old threads on this board) sounds interesting, maybe I'll explore that next time around if budget allows.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Converting a hybrid pool depends a lot on the skills of the builders in your local market. Most will look at a pool like that and basically say, “Nope, rip it all out and redo it or I’m not touching it.” No contractor wants to bet their warranty on utilizing some old parts of a pool to build a new one. Makes no sense. So whatever you hear from the contractors in your area, that’s about all you can expect.

Funny but a house right down the street from our neighborhood has this very old rectangle plunge pool that was built with a liner that was visible from the street (built back in the days when everything out here was dirt roads). The previous homeowner pretty much let the property go and the pool was basically an empty hole in the ground with a torn and decaying liner in it (not to mention lots of other trash). You could barely make out the sand filter off in the corner as weeds and saplings grew all around it. Fast forward and the house has a new owner. The entire front and backyard has been scraped and graded to remove all the weeds and growth. The fencing has been repaired. And, just a few months ago, the pool started to see some activity. They basically used the pool structure that was there to support a new rebar cage and a few weeks ago the gunite crew rolled in and poured a new gunite pool into the old pool. The tile line is up, no decking or plaster yet and the equipment pad is still just a pressure test manifold at this point. But, when all is said and done, the new owners will have a nice little “tiny pool” to plunge into and it looks like there will be a deck surrounding it and who-knows what else. At this point, the property looks 1000x better than what it was.

 

[pmh3986]

Yah, not a single pool builder I could find was willing to entertain working on it. I found some expert guidance online about things to think about, but I'm pretty much on my own.

Sounds like your neighbor is making quite an improvement! I can only imagine the cost (assuming one could find a willing contractor) to do a gunite conversion, that is definitely not DIY

 

[Lake Placid]

You probably won’t get 8 years from Olympic Zeron. I’ve used it in multiple applications including the floor of my own hybrid. I’ve been pleased with it for the most part, however I have noticed in my personal pool it chalks ALOT and leaves blue feet syndrome on swimmers. This has been disappointing. I’ve been in contact with Olympic to no avail, with only weak references to Alk being an issue of the chalkiness. It’s designed to erode a little each year and I believe this is more of the issue I’m experiencing with the bikini blue. I have not experienced the issue with white. An excerpt from tech bulletin 105 leads me to believe this is somewhat normal behavior as Kelly Tech references an annual wash of the chalkiness each year.


With the recent buyout of Kelly Tech supply has been limited and everything I’ve heard is once current stock is gone, it’s gone forever.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Sounds like your neighbor is making quite an improvement! I can only imagine the cost (assuming one could find a willing contractor) to do a gunite conversion, that is definitely not DIY

Well, before the pool renovation, they had to put a new roof on that house too. So they definitely bought themselves a “fixer-upper”!!

Actually, gunite is relatively cheap around here because every pool in AZ is a gunite/plaster pool. Why the previous owner used a liner is beyond me … the heat and UV here is just too destructive to use anything but plaster. So basically they just treated what they had a hole in the ground and the builder basically ignored/deprecated what was there. All new everything including trenches and plumbing. So if the owner saved any money on the deal, it was basically not having to hire an excavator to dig. That’s probably a few thousand bucks at most. Also, the original pool was tiny - maybe 25ft long and 12ft wide with a flat bottom of ~6ft. So the new gunite pool is probably even smaller than that . That’s ok though, a lot of people build small pools around here because water is expensive.

 

[Newdude]

the walls of this type of pool are not generally strong enough to support a new track and hanging a liner from it.

You'd need to cut back the coping and install a top track, possibly needing concrete to secure it to.



Then you'd need new coping installed over it. It would certainly add expense, but it would be a more permanent fix while still being much cheaper than installing a plaster pool inside the hole.

YMMV finding someone willing to tackle it as said above.

What is the decking situation ? If that was getting a face-lift too, the liner option would be less of a side quest.

 

[pmh3986]

You probably won’t get 8 years from Olympic Zeron. I’ve used it in multiple applications including the floor of my own hybrid. I’ve been pleased with it for the most part, however I have noticed in my personal pool it chalks ALOT and leaves blue feet syndrome on swimmers. This has been disappointing. I’ve been in contact with Olympic to no avail, with only weak references to Alk being an issue of the chalkiness. It’s designed to erode a little each year and I believe this is more of the issue I’m experiencing with the bikini blue. I have not experienced the issue with white. An excerpt from tech bulletin 105 leads me to believe this is somewhat normal behavior as Kelly Tech references an annual wash of the chalkiness each year.

View attachment 603795
With the recent buyout of Kelly Tech supply has been limited and everything I’ve heard is once current stock is gone, it’s gone forever.

Kinda bummed to hear about the blue feet syndrome, that's something that's been happening to an extent with my very aging finish, was hoping to alleviate that. Also, chalking is super annoying, was also assuming that was an artifact of how old the current coating is. Bikini Blue is the color I've already ordered.
As to 8yrs, yah I understand that's probably a stretch.

I just spoke to a rep from Kelly Tech, and she implied the product was not being discontinued.

Also interesting to read about the annual acid wash. The rep said nothing about that when I was discussing application and longevity with her. She did recommend I wash with the 3-step (TSP/Acid) OR the Olympic Prep-Magic (910 Pool washing compound) as part of my prep. I suppose a complete drain and wash each year or two wouldn't be terrible, but a bit annoying.

 

[pmh3986]

You'd need to cut back the coping and install a top track, possibly needing concrete to secure it to.
..
Then you'd need new coping installed over it. It would certainly add expense, but it would be a more permanent fix while still being much cheaper than installing a plaster pool inside the hole.

YMMV finding someone willing to tackle it as said above.

What is the decking situation ? If that was getting a face-lift too, the liner option would be less of a side quest.

I see, that would make sense if the track were mounted to the concrete (my decking is concrete running right up to the existing coping) as opposed to mounting a track directly to the fiberglass wall. It's not like the filled vinyl bag is pulling inward, the shell and bottom are still supporting all the water weight.

 

[Lake Placid]

If you do ANY work to the decking be aware the deck is integral to the support structure of the walls of a hybrid pool. There are metal beams that attach to the wall and run back perpendicular to the walls. Then the deck is poured on those beams to lock it all in place. If decking is to be removed the pool should be left full and braced and a lot of care should be taken during demolition to disturb the beams as little as possible.

 

[pmh3986]

If you do ANY work to the decking be aware the deck is integral to the support structure of the walls of a hybrid pool. There are metal beams that attach to the wall and run back perpendicular to the walls. Then the deck is poured on those beams to lock it all in place. If decking is to be removed the pool should be left full and braced and a lot of care should be taken during demolition to disturb the beams as little as possible.

View attachment 603850

good to know, thanks! I'm going to tread lightly and no try to change anything, only seal and repair any cracks that may arise in the deck as needed.