Testing water with puzzling results...

[AveMaria472]

So I am working with 2 pools here. The one in my signature is my pool at my house.

I am also working on another pool for a friend who is out of state.
Statistics on this pool:
21x43 oval above ground
vinyl liner
21,311 gallons
2hp Aquqa Pro variable speed pump
24", 300# sand filter
inline SWG connected but not in use during opening/SLAM
There is a large heater also, but we won't be worried about that.
I have no "history" of what was put in the pool in the past because my friend just bought the house. Given the array of pool "supplies" left by the previous owner in the garage (3" pucks, algaecide, etc, etc, etc) I'm thinking it wasn't any method taught here on TFP!

I opened the pool to a green mess. I even had to scoop a couple of dead things out of the water. I had to add a lot of water in order to run the pump. Once I could turn on the pump, I added 4 gallons of 12% LC chlorine to get the process going. I did see a change in the right direction overnight.

I assumed there would be high CYA leftover from last year as most pools taken care of any other way than what TFP teaches usually are!
But when I tested the CYA it was zero (completely clear in a full tube). The FC was 4 when I did the CYA test.
I checked the expiration on my R-0013 and it says 1/23. But I read on TFP that it is one of the most stable reagents if stored properly. I keep it in my cool, dark basement. So I decided to test my pool's CYA (to verify if the reagent is working), which I assumed would be 30-40 because I know what I add every year when I open it, and this year I added the same. But MY pool water also tested zero CYA. Now I'm really puzzled.
Question 1: Should I just replace the R-0013?

The trouble with SLAMing this pool is I'm 15 minutes away. I've already been driving back and forth 2-3 times a day opening and trying to get it full enough to run the pump (5.5 hours of running the hose!). It is going to be difficult to clear this pool because of this! But first I need to determine what the actual CYA level is!
Question 2: Once I get it clear though, any recommendations on using the SWG to keep this pool clear since no one is at the house daily? I didn't see a timer on the device, but I can see if there is a booklet for it with the pool "supplies" in the garage.

Now, let's get to MY pool (in my signature). My neighbor teaches swim lessons to families from our church in the summer. She ripped the liner in her pool and was going to have to cancel swim lessons just a couple of days before the start date and disappoint all the little kids, so I offered for her to use mine. She has had classes in my pool 5 days a week for the last 3 weeks. Some days there are over 30 kids in and out of my pool (sessions are 30 minutes long, so a fresh batch of kids is always coming and going). I've been SHOCKED at how much the chlorine demand is! I was adding extra chlorine in the morning before they arrive, knowing there would be a high swim load. But I was getting a ZERO FC test result at the end of the day. I started testing and adding chlorine on her lunch break from lessons which has helped to keep it from dropping to zero. But I've been using A LOT of chlorine!!! Gradually over this 3 week period, my pool has gotten not quite crystal clear. It's still testing 0 to .5 CC's and is "clear", but not that CRYSTAL clear it usually is. And the water feels different. When my daughters swim and come out of the pool and their hair dries, it is STIFF!!! This has never happened before. Also, the liner has faded incredibly this year. The liner is 5 years old (this is our 6th summer with it). My husband went in the pool yesterday and said he could rub off the pattern of the liner with his toe! (there was even blue bits in my robot filter basket!) I thought maybe I need to test the CH of the pool. I got a strange reading of 50, which is very low. There is no expiration on the reagents in my test kit.
Question 3: Do the CH reagents expire? Should I replace those and retest?
Question 4: Any insight on what is happening with my pool water?
My thoughts on the water situation... Could the slight cloudiness be from the liner wearing off and being suspended in the water? Or maybe the moms of these swim lesson kids are slathering on sunblock right before their kids are getting in the water and my pool water is full of it? Why are my girl's getting STIFF hair?!

I love TFP and I'm SO thankful to have such a great resource!

Alyssa in KY

 

[AveMaria472]

@Newdude see above

 

[mknauss]

R0013 is very stable. Unless it has been frozen.
CH reagents not so much. Should be replaced every year, two years at the most.
Calcium level (low side) has no effect on your liner. Low pH is the biggest threat to your liner.
When was the last time you tested the CYA of your pool?

 

[Texas Splash]

Question 1: Should I just replace the R-0013?

Yes. Even though it's the most stable, it's too much of a coincidence for both pools to be showing nothing.

Question 2: Once I get it clear though, any recommendations on using the SWG to keep this pool clear since no one is at the house daily?

You can try. It won't' hold a candle to liquid chlorine, but it's better than nothing. More than anything, once you get the FC to hold, return 2-3 times to test and add chlorine and that should suffice.

Question 3: Do the CH reagents expire? Should I replace those and retest?

Like Marty said, anything past a year should be replaced.

Question 4: Any insight on what is happening with my pool water?

I would consider posting a full set of test results since we can't see them right now. You might also consider starting a new thread for your friend's pool just so we don't get things confused by all the readers and replies. We can move posts around easily as needed for each to the proper thread.

 

[AveMaria472]

R0013 is very stable. Unless it has been frozen.
CH reagents not so much. Should be replaced every year, two years at the most.
Calcium level (low side) has no effect on your liner. Low pH is the biggest threat to your liner.
When was the last time you tested the CYA of your pool?

I haven't tested the CYA of my pool since I added the CYA. I added the same amount of granulated stabilizer that I do every year (3.5 lbs). I've been advised on here before to assume the change to the CYA was made since I added it. I added the CYA back in April.

The last time I used the R-0013 reagent was about a month or so ago. I was helping my son and his wife test their pool water while their TF-100 kit was on the way. They bought a house last fall with a pool so this is their first spring with one. Anyway, the reagent gave a reaction in their water when I tested the CYA.

I don't think I mentioned it in my initial post, but my PH is 7.5

 

[mknauss]

I would assume your CYA is zero. You may have had it consumed by a bacteria that gets in the water that then produces ammonia when the CYA is consumed. It then takes large amounts of chlorine to eliminate it, forcing the pH very low.

Run a full set of test results with your kit and post them here.

 

[AveMaria472]

I would assume your CYA is zero. You may have had it consumed by a bacteria that gets in the water that then produces ammonia when the CYA is consumed. It then takes large amounts of chlorine to eliminate it, forcing the pH very low.

Run a full set of test results with your kit and post them here.

Well, I guess I need to replace some reagents before I can run a FULL set of results.
Here is what I know:
FC 7
CC .5
PH 7.5
CYA should have been 30-40
What others do you need? My CH reagents are old.

Maybe I’ll have my son bring his new kit over and run a full set of tests with it. That will eliminate the question of expired reagents and will be quicker than waiting on replacements to arrive.

 

[AveMaria472]

Well, I guess I need to replace some reagents before I can run a FULL set of results.
Here is what I know:
FC 7
CC .5
PH 7.5
CYA should have been 30-40
What others do you need? My CH reagents are old.

Maybe I’ll have my son bring his new kit over and run a full set of tests with it. That will eliminate the question of expired reagents and will be quicker than waiting on replacements to arrive.

@mknauss what other tests do you need besides what I listed above?

If my CYA was really zero, wouldn’t the chlorine I add burn right off in the sun and my pool be turning green fast?

 

[mknauss]

TA and CH if you can. TA especially.

True on the chlorine. CYA might not be zero, just low.
Have you added any fill water due to evaporation? What is the TA of the fill water?

 

[AveMaria472]

I have had to add a couple inches of water twice this summer due to lack of rain. We have a cistern that collects rain water as our main water source (our house is not connected to city water). Due to the lack of rain, when our cistern gets low, we have to have water trucked in, which is city water. So our fill water when we top it off is a mix of mostly rain water and some city water mixed, coming from our cistern. It can be a different mix each time we top the pool off depending on if it’s been amply raining or if we had to have water trucked in.

I can test TA but my reagents for that are the same age as the CH reagents (more than 2 years old). Do those expire also?

Here are some pics of my water. Clear straight down to the bottom today. It is hard to tell how the water isn’t quite right but it just isn’t the same as it usually is. You can also see the fading liner.

 

[mknauss]

Wait on the TA until you get the other kit.

The fresh test results will hopefully guide us to what is going on.

 

[AveMaria472]

Wait on the TA until you get the other kit.

The fresh test results will hopefully guide us to what is going on.

Since my old reagents are likely going in the trash anyway, I tested TA and came up with 60 . I’ll post again when I retest with my son’s kit.

 

[mknauss]

I expected a lower TA. That would go along with the thought you had ammonia.

What is your normal TA level?

 

[AveMaria472]

I expected a lower TA. That would go along with the thought you had ammonia.

What is your normal TA level?

I don’t know. It isn’t one I test very often because it never really changed year to year so I stopped testing it.

 

[mknauss]

Best to just do a full set each month. Then record in PoolMath. Posterity sake so to speak.

 

[AveMaria472]

My son’s test kit is enroute… Will post results shortly when it arrives and I run new ones.

 

[AveMaria472]

Since I will have my son’s kit, I plan to retest the water from my friend’s pool. I have a sample I brought home yesterday in an uncovered plastic container. It’s been sitting on my kitchen counter. Can I test that sample or should I drive over and get a fresh one? I’m not worried what FC is since the pool needs a SLAM. Just trying to get a baseline on the others before beginning the SLAM, especially the CYA, so I know what to adjust before beginning.

 

[mknauss]

CYA for the friends pool will be a good test. TA also. pH and FC would be effected by sitting.

 

[AveMaria472]

Results with my son’s NEW TF-100 kit!
My pool:
FC 5.5
CC 0
PH 7.5
CH 50
TA 70
CYA 0

Friend’s pool:
CH 100
TA 220
CYA 0

Attaching pic of how clear the CYA tube was when completely full (my pool).

 

[AveMaria472]

Ok… so I recall now that I bought a different stabilizer than I normally buy. Pic attached of the brand I bought. I added 3.5 lbs from the 6lb bag.

I also discovered something just now while playing around in pool math. I set my CYA to 0 and played with the target number to see what my CYA would be if I added 3.5 lbs of granulated CYA. I’m shocked to see that it says my CYA would only be 23! I guess I need to add more than 3.5 lbs! For my CYA to go from 0 to 40, pool math says to add 6lbs. I still have the rest of the bag that I can add (I weighed the bag and it’s 2.4 lbs still in there), if you advise that’s what you think I should do. Perhaps if the CYA is actually in the 20s, that’s why the test is reading 0???

But what’s causing the stiff hair??