Help with light issue

[asand211]

Good morning! I'm trying to figure out a light issue. The pool has two Hayward Colorlogic lights that are about 6-7 years old. The pool does not have automation so the lights are connected to power through a standard switch. Now, when the switch is turned on the lights come on for about a second and then the GFCI breaker will trip. As the breaker was several years old I went ahead and replaced it first thing but that did not cure the issue. I then disconnected the lights completely and connected them back one at a time to see if I could isolate one of the lights as the issue. Both lights, when connected one at a time, will still trip the breaker. The next thing I did was disconnect them completely and turned on the switch to see if the breaker still tripped indicating a wiring problem and it did not trip. This is where i'm confused. I found that if I connect only the load wire with the ground and the common disconnected both lights will still trip the breaker if I check them separately or together. So, the only wire connected is the load when I did this. The next thing I checked was to connect all of the wiring but disconnect the ground wire from the GFCI to see if it still tripped and it does not and the lights will flicker if I do this. This seems to tell me that I have a something grounded out somewhere but I don't know where. I would appreciate any help you can provide. Thank you!

 

[KenKasza]

@asand211,
Your GFCI is tripping do a detected ground fault. When excessived current <100mA is detected on the ground line the circuit will trip. You have a short to ground.
What size are your lights?
LED?
Have you checked for water in the lights?
120VAC or is there a transformer to 12VAC?
Pictures of the electrical system and lights help as well.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[asand211]

@asand211,
Your GFCI is tripping do a detected ground fault. When excessived current <100mA is detected on the ground line the circuit will trip. You have a short to ground.
What size are your lights?
LED?
Have you checked for water in the lights?
120VAC or is there a transformer to 12VAC?
Pictures of the electrical system and lights help as well.

Welcome to the forum.

Thank you so much for answering. They are Hayward LED lights and are "sealed", however, I have seen several threads where people have said they tend to get moisture inside of them. The do not have an external transformer and the 120VAC power cable runs into the fixture itself which is in the pool. I suspected a short to ground but I was second guessing myself when I disconnected everything except the load wire and it still tripped. After I typed the first question I started thinking that even with the ground and common for the lights disconnected the lights could still short to ground to the panel since the pool and the pumps are grounded to the same panel. Is that correct? I was unable to see any moisture in the lights but I know it takes very little to throw a GFCI outlet. Unfortunately, the electrician who installed them left no extra wire in the niche to pull the lights out. I thought about taking one of them out and checking for moisture. Again, thanks for taking the time to help me.

 

[KenKasza]

Your pool water is GND, earth (mud, dirt) is GND. Electricity will take the least resistance path the GND. Your entire electircal system is bonded, house, pool, etc.
Do you have an outlet on the same GFCI circuit breaker? If so, keep the lights off, plug in a three pronged device, turn it on and see if the breaker trips. That will isolate it to the lights.
Bad wiring, water in lights.

Do you have a multi-meter.
- keep power off. Manually trip the breaker
- disconnect both lights: load, neutral and GND wires
- conduct continuity test between load and GND wires: should be very high number, or O.L.
- conduct continuity test between neutral and GND wires: should be very high number, or O.L.
Post your findings.

Intresting that both lights failed at same time.

 

[asand211]

Your pool water is GND, earth (mud, dirt) is GND. Electricity will take the least resistance path the GND. Your entire electircal system is bonded, house, pool, etc.
Do you have an outlet on the same GFCI circuit breaker? If so, keep the lights off, plug in a three pronged device, turn it on and see if the breaker trips. That will isolate it to the lights.
Bad wiring, water in lights.

Do you have a multi-meter.
- keep power off. Manually trip the breaker
- disconnect both lights: load, neutral and GND wires
- conduct continuity test between load and GND wires: should be very high number, or O.L.
- conduct continuity test between neutral and GND wires: should be very high number, or O.L.
Post your findings.

Intresting that both lights failed at same time.

The supply line from the panel goes to an outdoor switch that is directly on the other side of the wall from the panel on the pool house. It's about 6" away from the panel at the most. The line from the switch goes straight down to a junction box where the two separate pool light wires come in. They are all connected in that junction box. The fact both lights indicated they were faulty at the same time is what threw me off. The other day I set my Fluke to ohms and tested between the green and black wires. I cannot remember the reading but it went from OL to a reading. I will retest and send the results. It's just hard to image both of those $1000 lights failed together but it's possible. Thank you. I'll take pictures of everything and post them.

 

[asand211]

Your pool water is GND, earth (mud, dirt) is GND. Electricity will take the least resistance path the GND. Your entire electircal system is bonded, house, pool, etc.
Do you have an outlet on the same GFCI circuit breaker? If so, keep the lights off, plug in a three pronged device, turn it on and see if the breaker trips. That will isolate it to the lights.
Bad wiring, water in lights.

Do you have a multi-meter.
- keep power off. Manually trip the breaker
- disconnect both lights: load, neutral and GND wires
- conduct continuity test between load and GND wires: should be very high number, or O.L.
- conduct continuity test between neutral and GND wires: should be very high number, or O.L.
Post your findings.

Intresting that both lights failed at same time.

 

[asand211]

Those are the readings checking resistance on each light between the ground and load wires.

 

[KenKasza]

Those values do not indicate a short. I calulate about 0.9mA, which is less than a tripping current of ~5.0mA. I'm not ruling out the lights. but lets make sure the wire to the J-box is good.

Turn your CB off. Keep lights disconnected. With the CB off, turn the light switch to on, test continuity between load wire and GND, and load wire to neutral.

Are you able to connect a know good load in place of the pool lights....safely? Does this test load trip the breaker?

 

[asand211]

Those values do not indicate a short. I calulate about 0.9mA, which is less than a tripping current of ~5.0mA. I'm not ruling out the lights. but lets make sure the wire to the J-box is good.

Turn your CB off. Keep lights disconnected. With the CB off, turn the light switch to on, test continuity between load wire and GND, and load wire to neutral.

Are you able to connect a know good load in place of the pool lights....safely? Does this test load trip the breaker?

Yes sir, I can do that safely. I do these things and report back. Thanks Again.

 

[asand211]

Those values do not indicate a short. I calulate about 0.9mA, which is less than a tripping current of ~5.0mA. I'm not ruling out the lights. but lets make sure the wire to the J-box is good.

Turn your CB off. Keep lights disconnected. With the CB off, turn the light switch to on, test continuity between load wire and GND, and load wire to neutral.

Are you able to connect a know good load in place of the pool lights....safely? Does this test load trip the breaker?

I had no continuity between the load and ground or load and common. I then installed an outlet and plugged in a fan that I had already tested on another GFCI and it did not trip. I went ahead and pulled the lights out and put them in the sun. One light immediately had condensation on the inside of the lens and the other one had water in the lens. I guess that’s the problem. Thanks for all the time you spent helping me.

 

[KenKasza]

When you removed the lights did you pull a string through the conduit while removing them. Makes it easier to install the new lights.
Make susre you leave enough cable slack in the nitch so you can bring them to the deck and work them out of the pool.

Glad to help. Wish we could have found a cheaper fault. Good news...your GFCI was doing it's job and keeping you safe in the pool.

 

[asand211]

When you removed the lights did you pull a string through the conduit while removing them. Makes it easier to install the new lights.
Make susre you leave enough cable slack in the nitch so you can bring them to the deck and work them out of the pool.

Glad to help. Wish we could have found a cheaper fault. Good news...your GFCI was doing it's job and keeping you safe in the pool.

yes sir I did. The goofball electrician cut off all of the excess cable so it was tight but I taped para cord to the wires and ran it through the conduit as the wire came out. I've read several forums where people have taken the lights apart and let them sit outside in a covered area a few days and they dry out. That's what I'm doing. Fingers crossed. I attached a plug to both lights and plugged them into a GFCI and both tripped the breaker. Just confirms what we thought. Again, Thank you so much for taking the time to help me. Have a great day!