Frozen Pool

[greggjess]

Welp....not sure if the variable pump wasn't at a high enough RPM or something happened overnight but woke up to a frozen pool. We've blanket/tarped the equipment with a space heater and pulled drain plugs from pump and filter. Now I'm wondering if it is better to just wait out the above freezing temps to thaw on its own. I think my signature says it but I'm in Fort Worth, TX. We didn't have a pool in 2021 so no personal past experience to go off.

Edit - The filter plug broke when I tried to get it off so some water can come out but not the normal flow. We have more plugs so replacing is fine once we get what's left off. :-/

 

[HermanTX]

suggest you put a small section of noodle in your skimmes to prevent ice from forming and expanding which will crack the skimmer.

 

[greggjess]

suggest you put a small section of noodle in your skimmes to prevent ice from forming and expanding which will crack the skimmer.

gosh that's some cold water....is that enough? We don't have many pool noodles....

I added an empty gallon jug under the skimmer cover and removed the filter basket as well.

 

[Newdude]

woke up to a frozen pool.

Was it entirely across the top, or were there small unfrozen areas at the skimmer and return?

Theoretically if the returns were aimed too low, the top might freeze but it could run fine under a half inch (etc) of ice so long as the weir doors were free. Or if it got really cold, most of the pool surface would freeze but the plumbing would still have plenty of movement.

 

[greggjess]

Was it entirely across the top, or were there small unfrozen areas at the skimmer and return?

Theoretically if the returns were aimed too low, the top might freeze but it could run fine under a half inch (etc) of ice so long as the weir doors were free. Or if it got really cold, most of the pool surface would freeze but the plumbing would still have plenty of movement.

It was all frozen including the pump. :-( Skimmer hadn't frozen over yet though.

I checked the pump manual and freeze protection is 1000rpms which is the lowest I have it set regularly. I'm really confused as to what happened.

 

[clairsan2023]

@greggjess - by no means am I pool expert but my freeze protection is set at 2500 rpms. I'm not sure what the correct RPMs that freeze protection should be set. My pump is a Jandy ePump series. Could 1000 be too low?

 

[greggjess]

@greggjess - by no means am I pool expert but my freeze protection is set at 2500 rpms. I'm not sure what the correct RPMs that freeze protection should be set. My pump is a Jandy ePump series. Could 1000 be too low?

That's my guess. I've added it to my Freeze Prep list to put the pump at 2500 rpm 24/7.

 

[Newdude]

I'm really confused as to what happened

Me too. Some ice on the pool surface is one thing. Ice inside plumbing moving with crazy flow is a whole another story. 1000 RPMs doesn't seem like much compared to the open fire hydrant 3450 RPMs, but 1000 RPMs is still great movement at the pump.

Even If you had 4 skimmers and 6 returns maybe 1 or 2 legs wouldnt have great flow, but the pump would be throwing plenty of water through the equipment pad at 1000 RPMs.

I'm guessing it shut down/off for a spell and the water well into the 20s froze up quick at that point.

That sll said, I would personally run high RPMs during freezes just because. I honestly believe it's extra and not required, but we are all 'enthusiasts' here who are a bit extra from the get go.

 

[JJ_Tex]

Gosh, something seems off and 1,000 rpm should not freeze up the pumps. Mine was at 1,200 until I woke up this morning to some ice in the corners and bumped it to 1,500. Good luck.

 

[greggjess]

I know!!! Argh....there was a time recently that the power blinked and the pump did not turn back on. It was so fast even clocks didn't revert to 12 but it stopped the pump. Perhaps that happened overnight at some point.

Opinions on if it is worth it to keep the space heater on the equipment today/tomorrow? I don't like the idea of running the heater overnight so wondering if during the day is worth it. Should be warm enough to thaw Wed.

Me too. Some ice on the pool surface is one thing. Ice inside plumbing moving with crazy flow is a whole another story. 1000 RPMs doesn't seem like much compared to the open fire hydrant 3450 RPMs, but 1000 RPMs is still great movement at the pump.

Even If you had 4 skimmers and 6 returns maybe 1 or 2 legs wouldnt have great flow, but the pump would be throwing plenty of water through the equipment pad at 1000 RPMs.

I'm guessing it shut down/off for a spell and the water well into the 20s froze up quick at that point.

That sll said, I would personally run high RPMs during freezes just because. I honestly believe it's extra and not required, but we are all 'enthusiasts' here who are a bit extra from the get go.

The extra enthusiasm is why I like this group. You always have good advice even if it is extra.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Greg,

What tells your pump to run "freeze control"???

My 3 HP IntelliFlo runs at 1200 RPM and none of my pool water froze...

RPM, does not really tell the whole story.. It is the flow that counts. If you have a dirty filter, or smaller pump, you will have to run faster to get the flow needed to keep things from freezing.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JJ_Tex]

Opinions on if it is worth it to keep the space heater on the equipment today/tomorrow? I don't like the idea of running the heater overnight so wondering if during the day is worth it. Should be warm enough to thaw Wed.

The extra enthusiasm is why I like this group. You always have good advice even if it is extra.

I would run the space heater in the chance it can be the difference between busted equipment and making it out fine. Even if you do have to replace your equipment, you will at least know you tried everything once you discovered the issue.

 

[greggjess]

Greg,

What tells your pump to run "freeze control"???

My 3 HP IntelliFlo runs at 1200 RPM and none of my pool water froze...

RPM, does not really tell the whole story.. It is the flow that counts. If you have a dirty filter, or smaller pump, you will have to run faster to get the flow needed to keep things from freezing.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Pump runs 24/7....lowest RPM I have it set is 1000. We do get low flow when the filter is ready to change but it was recently changed and have not gotten such errors lately. That being said....it could have been a factor. I'm definitely running it faster in the future.

 

[Newdude]

If you have a dirty filter

+1. My thoughts were assuming a TFP member knowing their filter threshold for reduced flow. Or at least that the PSI had only risen a couple % since the last cleaning and they still had plenty to go.

 

[greggjess]

Thoughts on trying to start up the equipment when there is ice on top of the pool itself? Not planning to break up so jets would be running under the ice.

Right now the ice is pretty thin around the skimmer and gets thicker at the opposite end (sun vs no sun). Tomorrow will be warmer and therefore by this time ice should be less . The skimmer is not frozen...THANK YOU FOR THE TIPS.

We are going to keep the space heater going overnight tonight since we have a low in the teens. We have about 24 hours above freezing our thought is to pull the tarp/blankets off and inspect what we have going on with everything. We have more freezing temps going so if we can start it up - great. If better to wait until all thawed then we will.

Thank you for your help! Next freeze I'm turning up the RPMs and checking more often so we never have to do this again!

 

[Newdude]

So running under the ice is fine, with clear skimmers. But check occasionally because the ice may break up and collect in the skimmer. It will overload quick and brick up in the basket, potentially causing a new flow issue.

Next freeze I'm turning up the RPMs and checking more often so we never have to do this again!

Aim the returns a little higher also. I'd gladly eat the PH rise for a few days in exchange for more surface movement. High PH is a long term concern and you can let it ride for a week if you need to.

 

[JJ_Tex]

Thoughts on trying to start up the equipment when there is ice on top of the pool itself? Not planning to break up so jets would be running under the ice.

I wouldn't risk it today. I would not worry about the surface ice, but we haven't been above freezing in days and your pipes are bound to have ice in them. One good chunk of ice hitting an impeller or causing your filter to go boom is just not worth it. The next 2 days we will be in the 40's and 50's and I would wait until then.

 

[greggjess]

So running under the ice is fine, with clear skimmers. But check occasionally because the ice may break up and collect in the skimmer. It will overload quick and brick up in the basket, potentially causing a new flow issue.

Aim the returns a little higher also. I'd gladly eat the PH rise for a few days in exchange for more surface movement. High PH is a long term concern and you can let it ride for a week if you need to.

Good point on the ice breakup....easy enough to check during the day but overnight would be harder so I'll consider how to handle that.

Yes I would exchange some PH rise too! That's way easier to deal with than all this.

 

[Newdude]

I wouldn't risk it today.

Goodness, NICE catch. Don't risk it tomorrow or the next day either. One ice cube sized chunk in the plumbing that froze while the system was down would be detrimental.

 

[greggjess]

I wouldn't risk it today. I would not worry about the surface ice, but we haven't been above freezing in days and your pipes are bound to have ice in them. One good chunk of ice hitting an impeller or causing your filter to go boom is just not worth it. The next 2 days we will be in the 40's and 50's and I would wait until then.

I was thinking maybe tomorrow late afternoon at the very earliest. But also why I was coming here to see if it was worth the risk.