The engineers are saying that they think that the workmanship is poor and that they are concerned about how deep the cracks go.
Didn't they say that they could do a core sample for $250.00?
Too cold for shotcrete?
- Thread starter Titan7
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Didn't they say that they could do a core sample for $250.00?
Are you close to any of these schools?
Arizona State University (Fulton). Graduate School (Engineering) • Tempe, AZ.
Note: ASU is the best school on earth so you can trust their results.
University of Arizona. Graduate School (Engineering) • Tucson, AZ.
Northern Arizona University. Graduate School (Engineering) • Flagstaff, AZ.
Arizona State University (Fulton). Graduate School (Engineering) • Tempe, AZ.
Note: ASU is the best school on earth so you can trust their results.
University of Arizona. Graduate School (Engineering) • Tucson, AZ.
Northern Arizona University. Graduate School (Engineering) • Flagstaff, AZ.
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We are at least 6-8 wks away from Plaster. As for the builder, I don’t really care, everything until we have a potential issue, and of course i get the it will be fine.
quite frankly I don’t care what they think, this is not a inexpensive project. My concern is issues down the road, how do you think a warranty claim will be in 2 years? It will end up with finger pointing and litigation. While I still have $65k left in the contract I have leverage.
Just an update should anybody else run into this issue, I can’t hire ANYBODY to evalute this situation, I called 20+ engineering firms in the PHX area, places in CA, called the American Shotcrete Association for a referral, nothing.
So either nobody wants to deal with it which is odd as I am trying to “Hire” a consultant, or this is not an issue, or I am the only person who has ever dealt with this?
My only suggestion would be to hire a Shotcrete subcontractor who is ASA certified, of course good luck with that unless you do owner builder and can hire your own, then good luck since it not commercial work, not many do residential work, I asked.
What I have learned is what may have caused this was the temp differential between the mix and the ambient temp, I read this could cause plastic shrinkage cracks. The mix was 3000 psi, 3” slump with fiber added, and hot water. The air temp was 42F, not sure if that was the issue or the 55 min delay between load 1 and load 2?
I was able to speak with the engineer who did the design for the pool builder, he said it’s a workmanship issue, he is suggesting that we grind down a 1 square foot area 1/8” and see if the cracks are still there, if they are he said he suggests a core sample. If they are not he suggests we have all the area with these surface cracks to be ground down 1/8” as he said it could reflect into the plaster.
The PB said they need to get the shotcrete sub and engineer out here in person. I am going to press this issue hard, the builder, California Pools and Landscape keeps saying normal and we have a lifetime warranty, I keep telling them great, but I dont want to drain the pool in a year or two and tear all the plaster out and do what should have been down now.
Such a nightmare, again, posting for the benefit of others, since I am pretty much at their mercy. I spoke with a CD attorney who said there is nothing they can do until there is a problem. I might have to file a complaint with the AZ ROC, perhaps they can look into this? Either way I continue to water cure it hoping it will help with strength, the ASA recommended watering 3-5x for a minimum of 7 days and then 1-2 a day until day 28, and then 1-2 times per week until plaster. The PB are going to start decking in a week or so, I think we have to wait 28 days before coping and tile.
What a mess.
So either nobody wants to deal with it which is odd as I am trying to “Hire” a consultant, or this is not an issue, or I am the only person who has ever dealt with this?
My only suggestion would be to hire a Shotcrete subcontractor who is ASA certified, of course good luck with that unless you do owner builder and can hire your own, then good luck since it not commercial work, not many do residential work, I asked.
What I have learned is what may have caused this was the temp differential between the mix and the ambient temp, I read this could cause plastic shrinkage cracks. The mix was 3000 psi, 3” slump with fiber added, and hot water. The air temp was 42F, not sure if that was the issue or the 55 min delay between load 1 and load 2?
I was able to speak with the engineer who did the design for the pool builder, he said it’s a workmanship issue, he is suggesting that we grind down a 1 square foot area 1/8” and see if the cracks are still there, if they are he said he suggests a core sample. If they are not he suggests we have all the area with these surface cracks to be ground down 1/8” as he said it could reflect into the plaster.
The PB said they need to get the shotcrete sub and engineer out here in person. I am going to press this issue hard, the builder, California Pools and Landscape keeps saying normal and we have a lifetime warranty, I keep telling them great, but I dont want to drain the pool in a year or two and tear all the plaster out and do what should have been down now.
Such a nightmare, again, posting for the benefit of others, since I am pretty much at their mercy. I spoke with a CD attorney who said there is nothing they can do until there is a problem. I might have to file a complaint with the AZ ROC, perhaps they can look into this? Either way I continue to water cure it hoping it will help with strength, the ASA recommended watering 3-5x for a minimum of 7 days and then 1-2 a day until day 28, and then 1-2 times per week until plaster. The PB are going to start decking in a week or so, I think we have to wait 28 days before coping and tile.
What a mess.
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This is not advice or a recommendation, but what I would do is drill a few core samples and find someone who can test the samples in their machine and have them test it.
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James, I agree but I can’t touch the pool, they have to handle all of this, if I start doing this on my own they can void any warranty, I know it’s BS but I am not touching this without written authorization. Thinking of calling the AZ ROC to tomorrow to file a complaint, not PB and I are on good terms at this point.This is not advice or a recommendation, but what I would do is drill a few core samples and find someone who can test the samples in their machine and have them test it.
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Test Pricing $80 $600 $500 (6 cubes) $150 $150 $300 Contact CRT $500 – Full Parameters $450 – Total Air Void Content Only $175 $110 $150 Contact CRT $2400 $200 – Concrete Sample $175 – Powdered Sample $175 $200 – Concrete Sample $175 – Powdered Sample $1075 – Coarse Aggregate $1000 – Fine...
The other point being that the ACS ”recommends” 4000psi mix, thats just a recommendation, but it’s a good one. Not too long ago 2500 was good enough for pools, so even if a core sample showed less than the 3000psi mix they shot not sure what can be done.
It’s just unfortunate, I know a heck of lot more than the average consumer hiring a pool contractor and even I am at the mercy of the builders subcontractor and just people having a bad day. I vetted the builder and the subs, all had good reviews, not sure what else I could have done here
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I called them, I posted a detailed post with photos onto their Facebook page, was told someone would look into it and call you back. That was a week ago, I left other msgs, they just blew it off.
I will call the others you have found tomorrow, thank you!!!
I will call the others you have found tomorrow, thank you!!!
Update, so I spoke with a couple of the experts above who told me it’s plastic crack, and suggested we grind down a 1/8“ to see it crack is still there, did this in a couple areas and the crack disappeared, so surface only. The engineer who designed my pool was here with the PB and owner of shotcrete sub. They are also coating everyplace with surface cracks with a special 6000psi bonding coat before pebble as an extra precaution. So that problem is resolved, on to the other issue we discovered yesterday with tile, 1/3 of the pool coping on the deep end is 1/4-3/8“ higher than the rest of the pool, lol. So now they have to remove all the coping grind down and reset to coping, when it rains it pours, lol. They also formed the pillars at 24” on left 25 on right. Noticed the when tile was placed, solution I came up with was to redo the end cuts on the left side and use more thin set to bring them out further to match the right side as you could see the difference in tile cuts on the two pillars, they will just float more plaster to make it flush. Not sure why the guy who does this for a living can’t figure out a solution. Also noticed the pillar on the right is proud by 1/2”, they are gonna need to figure that out. The devil is in the details. The photo of the tile setter holding the tile in place is where the zip laser level mark is in the pool, you can see the red laser in one of the photos.
I had the VP of the pool company out, the original crew is toast, I will spare you of the other problems we had, the new crew is absolutely top notch, they redid a lot of work. Now the coping issues came up so we only did tile on 2/3 of the pool until that’s fixed.
gotta love construction
I had the VP of the pool company out, the original crew is toast, I will spare you of the other problems we had, the new crew is absolutely top notch, they redid a lot of work. Now the coping issues came up so we only did tile on 2/3 of the pool until that’s fixed.
gotta love construction
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