No blowing out lines!!!

[Newdude]

.if I want to run my filter to get X amount of turnover daily how can I get there by not knowing gpm..

You're missing the point. You have no idea how many turnovers you need, so GPM is of no help. Your eyes are your guide. If the pool is stupid clear, chances are you can lower your filter time. If it's lost some of it sparkle, then you need more filtering. The need will change drastically over the season. Alot, some, next to none, some, alot. Or if you're like most people by us they open late and close early to miss the 'alot' parts.

Again, with or without the cover, most people are by default covered filtering with their SWG runtime.

I do this without knowing my GPM or how much I'm turning over.

If I'm doing your method why get a vs pump just use a single speed run for like 4 hours a day..

My VS pump runs 24/7 at 1500 rpms for the cost of 2.3(?) hours on max rpm. I could go considerably lower but we like the water moving a bit more so I splurge all the way to 220W. Technically 35W / 700rpms activates my SWG, skims and filters.

 

[Superblue72]

Running the pump does several things in order of importance:
1. Allows your SWCG to generate chlorine
2. Circulates the water to allow the skimmers to skim off surface debris
3. Circulates the water to distribute chlorine and the other chemicals
4. Runs water through your filter to filter out suspended debris

While all of it is important, people tend to get hung up on #4 and come up with a formula of how much water should run through your filter per day. If you take care of #1-3, you will naturally keep #4 happy.

I too run my filter 24/7, mainly at speeds low enough to barely keep my skimmers and SWCG happy and my wallet happy. My pool is crystal clear, never had a speck of algae, and I have no idea if I turn over my water once every 5 days or 60 times a day.

I'm just really big on efficiency, and I'm a numbers guy so I just want to know. I never knew on my last pool I just ran the pump put in chemicals vacuumed and it was always clear. But this was 20 years ago times have changed we have the capability to know everything these days. We know we need at least 1 water turnover daily 2 or 3 is better imo...but we don't need 6...and less than 1 is probably not enough.
In a way it's kind of like driving a car and not looking at the speedometer and tachometer, yes you will still get there but it might be less efficient.

 

[Superblue72]

You're missing the point. You have no idea how many turnovers you need, so GPM is of no help. Your eyes are your guide. If the pool is stupid clear, chances are you can lower your filter time. If it's lost some of it sparkle, then you need more filtering. The need will change drastically over the season. Alot, some, next to none, some, alot. Or if you're like most people by us they open late and close early to miss the 'alot' parts.

Again, with or without the cover, most people are by default covered filtering with their SWG runtime.

I do this without knowing my GPM or how much I'm turning over.

View attachment 533104


My VS pump runs 24/7 at 1500 rpms for the cost of 2.3(?) hours on max rpm. I could go considerably lower but we like the water moving a bit more so I splurge all the way to 220W. Technically 35W / 700rpms activates my SWG, skims and filters.

I get it you use your eyes which is fine, but for me I just want to know...nice pool btw can I ask what is your decking material...I like it

 

[Newdude]

but for me I just want to know...

And that's a GREAT reason. You like toys (flovis) and you want to get your math on and spreadsheet it. I'm all for it.

But it's a want, not a need.

Your filtering need is environment based, not GPM based. You can't calculate a gpm need based upon how dirty the patio is. You're either filtering enough, or you're not. With your environment (spending most of its life covered), 30 mins of mixing a day is probably all you'll *need*. Whatever runtime you have for your SWG will almost certainly put you over your daily need for filtering.

Obviously, you'd want to run for 2 days after a party with higher than usual bather load. Sunblock, sweat, body oils, etc take a bit to break down and/or filter.

 

[Newdude]

btw can I ask what is your decking material...I like it

THANKS !!!

Cambridge limestone quarry blend 3 piece kit with coal border.

 

[Superblue72]

THANKS !!!

Cambridge limestone quarry blend 3 piece kit with coal border.

View attachment 533124

View attachment 533125

Wow very nice...I was on the fence on decking but I think I'm gonna do stamped concrete...my wife would love this tho

 

[Newdude]

Wow very nice...I was on the fence on decking but I think I'm gonna do stamped concrete...my wife would love this tho

Not gonna lie, it hurt. The plan was just a strip around the pool and it became filling in the 33x40 area between the house and pool, plus the strip. Then the Mrs. wanted matching steps because Mrs. gonna Mrs.

But we absolutely love it. I would have been kicking myself on day 3 if I didn't.

We didn't price stamped concrete this time but last time it was no savings over pavers. These were $16 or $17 a ft, including the slab underneath. It's detailed towards the end of my build thread in my sig.

 

[Superblue72]

Not gonna lie, it hurt. The plan was just a strip around the pool and it became filling in the 33x40 area between the house and pool, plus the strip. Then the Mrs. wanted matching steps because Mrs. gonna Mrs.

But we absolutely love it. I would have been kicking myself on day 3 if I didn't.

We didn't price stamped concrete this time but last time it was no savings over pavers. These were $16 or $17 a ft, including the slab underneath. It's detailed towards the end of my build thread in my sig.

There are pros and cons to both...I've laid some pavers in my time...its definitely work...I got a price of 12 a sf for stamped...pavers were 20 and up...unless of course I did it myself and I'm to old now for that kind of work.

 

[ajw22]

Hmmm Ok but if you don't know gpm how do you set up your vs pump to get proper water turnover?

Please read Turnover of Pool Water - Further Reading

 

[proavia]

Do you want to be efficient and run the pump to only do specific things or do you want to be inefficient and do 'x' number of turnovers?
You run the pump at a specific RPM to accomplish a specific task.
None of those tasks have anything to do with turnovers.

Here is the only turnover I care about.... YUM!

 

[JJ_Tex]

I'm just really big on efficiency, and I'm a numbers guy so I just want to know. I never knew on my last pool I just ran the pump put in chemicals vacuumed and it was always clear. But this was 20 years ago times have changed we have the capability to know everything these days. We know we need at least 1 water turnover daily 2 or 3 is better imo...but we don't need 6...and less than 1 is probably not enough.
In a way it's kind of like driving a car and not looking at the speedometer and tachometer, yes you will still get there but it might be less efficient.

Nothing wrong with being a numbers guy, I'm just saying you are focusing on the wrong numbers.

If we go by my logic, lets start with chlorination.
You are going to need to generate roughly 4 FC per day. That could be accomplished by running at 18 hours a day @ 40%. Obviously, you could run for less time at a higher % or 24/7 at a bit lower %, but lets use 18 hours for this exercise.

Now break up those 18 hours and see how you want to run the pump to your liking, considering your wallet, skimming, aesthetics, etc.
So for 12 hours you run your pump at a low speed @ say 1500 RPM and the other 6 hours at 2,500 RPM

The above is a pretty solid schedule and will meet all of your needs and turnovers are not even considered.

Since you are a numbers guy and want to see turnover, I can use the GPM from my pump and get:
12 hours a day @ 1,500 RPM (15 GPM) = 10,800 gallons
6 hours a day @ 2,500 PRM (44 GPM) = 15,840 gallons
That is roughly 2 turnovers per day of your 14k pool, which is the number you were shooting for in your post even though nothing magical happens at 2 turnovers a day.

So back to my original point... focus on chlorination and skimming when setting your schedule. Those are measurable metrics and much more accurate than trying to hit some magic number of turnover which may or may not work with your particular pool.

 

[Newdude]

+1. I am on the board for all 3 clubs....24/7 club, SWG club and #teamrunhot. (I wear alot of hats ) The results speak for themselves as seen above.

But they are all wants, to make things easier. What I actually need right this second, kinda in between seasons with a stalled fall, is about a gallon of 10% a day (#bigpoolclub too), and an hour or two of low rpm filtering/skimming. A couple weeks back when they plowed the farm behind me 24/7 wasn't enough at any RPM while all the airborne crud was blowing in. I needed time for the filter to catch up, not turnovers. More RPMs/GPMs would theoretically do it sooner but it would also mix it considerably more and end up being mostly a wash.

 

[Superblue72]

Listen I get all your points, I was there on my last pool, for years I ran the pump, vacuumed and tested and balanced chemicals...was always clean and clear. I probably had 3-4 eater turnovers a day that was 20 years ago when I didn't care about being efficient.
In my opinion knowing gpm is important not only from the stance of filtering the water, but efficiency in the pipes...you can create a lot of efficiency lose in the pipes, isn't this why we upgrade to bigger pipe size?
But at the end of the day do I really NEED it nope, but I want it and that's what matters...now who's giving me my turnover? And I want vanilla ice cream please.

 

[Newdude]

, but I want it and that's what matters

Like I said, get your geek on. 24/7, low RPM, mostly covered will be ridiculous overkill on every metric. I only run 24/7 for the look of the water and if it was covered I'd run alot less. Probably 12 hours which is still ridiculous overkill, but I'm extra too.

Wait until you see how much we upend the industry chemistry, which surprisingly uses little chemistry and is focused on sales. Page one of the book says to throw out the old book and start over.

I assure you though, there's well explained reasons for every chapter.

 

[SoDel]

Same here, pump runs 24/7 and FC hot at between 10 to 20% CYA (I can’t spend the time micromanaging things, so doing it this way makes life a lot easier — intervention is rarely required with that wide a range, and it’s more than plenty high enough so never a worry about algae or sanitation). Pump draws about 100 Watts in low speed, about as much as an old fashioned light bulb. My pool is in an open area surrounded by trees on three sides which sort of funnel the wind and blow all kinds of leaf bits, dust, dirt, pollen, sand, etc. in the pool every big gust of wind. Since switching to 24/7 filtering/skimming, the pool is clean with sparkling clear water, I run the robot once a week, sometimes every other week, and the leaf net stays in the garage (except post cyclone or hurricane, maybe twice a season).

For a few dollars of electricity and maybe slightly less life in the SWG, 24/7 filtering with FC on the high side saves time and keeps the pool much cleaner — less work and it looks great all day, every day. I’d like to have a flowmeter just to know what it’s doing, but with or without, I would never go back to some essentially arbitrary number of filter hours per day.

 

[Superblue72]

Hello I live in Ct my pool is being installed in like 3 weeks. My pool builder uses oil creek poly pipe for all underground piping. He states that there is not need blow out the lines, they will not break when they freeze...the pad obviously gets drained...has anyone heard of this??? This kind of freaks me out...

So now that I'm seeing the build process unfold I'm wondering how the plumbing is run on other pool builds. My pb after installing the walls and leveled they brought in a cemet truck. They laid cement around the whole pool (outside also in my staduim steps). Today they ran the pipe, the pipe comes out of the returns and go down to the cemet which is about 3 foot down. Also the 2 skimmers also go down to the cemet then run along the cemet back to the equipment pad. I know 42" is code for footing to be below the frost line, I truly doubt being im southern ct the ground freezes 3 foot down.
So I talked with him about blowing out the lines... they do not lower the water level at all. They take most of the water out of the skimmer lines and then add the gizmo, the return lines they take off the inside eyeballs and that's it. (Mind you we are using poly pipe)
During my conversation with him he said some pb will only put cemet on the 2 A-frames and then back fill then run the pipes at about 18 inches which would definitely freeze solid around here.
Thoughts

 

[Newdude]

Granted it's not every year and just the cold ones, but here's the frost line map zoomed in.



I'm OK with them doing their thing they've been doing for 50 years, *if* you retain the final payment(s) so you have something to ensure they make any issues right in the spring.

 

[Superblue72]

Granted it's not every year and just the cold ones, but here's the frost line map zoomed in.

View attachment 536488

I'm OK with them doing their thing they've been doing for 50 years, *if* you retain the final payment(s) so you have something to ensure they make any issues right in the spring.

Yeah like I said I know 42" is where we have to dig for footings. It never gets that cold here anymore. I trully doubt it gets frozen at 36"...they are closing it this year with the install, I'm going to let them do it they way they do it. In fact if they close it and a pipe beaks they are liable
This is they way I look at it. They are a successful business for a long time. They have like 4.9 rating on Google reviews, not one mention of closing the pool incorrectly and pipes bursting. He also told me they do like 300 closings a year, that's a lot of broken pipes.
Edit I should mention it's only the pools they install that are closed this way, not knowing pipe depth and kind of pipes(pvc while strong are brittle and will crack much easier imo than poly) will dictate closing procedures.

 

[joonbug99]

Take a close look at your closing contract. Make sure there is no clause that limits their liability if damage is discovered upon opening it the next year. My PB had a clause in their closing contract that limited their liability.

 

[Superblue72]

Take a close look at your closing contract. Make sure there is no clause that limits their liability if damage is discovered upon opening it the next year. My PB had a clause in their closing contract that limited their liability.

True that, but besides that the owner of the company is on video showing his own pool closed for the winter, he explains leaving the water level up and no blowing the lines and that's how he recommends all the pools he builds to close thier pools...