Auto Pool fill feature? New build - Yes or no?

[Dirk]

A larger filter needs proportionately less cleanings.

This is the common advice here, but I think there are exceptions to this rule of thumb. Are you planning on having an enclosure around your pool? I have a very clean pool and barely have to clean my filter once a year. I even skipped a year once. I have a 320, and wouldn't want a larger one, because it would just mean more work for me, as the larger filters are more work to clean, and more expensive to replace when they wear out, for zero advantage given the size of my pool and the amount of stuff needing filtering. And this includes a suction-side vacuum that empties what it collects into my filter. I really don't need or would want a bigger filter.

If you anticipate a lot of leaves and other gunk getting into your pool, then I would agree, a 150 is way too small and the largest filter you can get would be advantageous. But if you think your landscaping is "pool friendly" (like mine is), or if your pool will be enclosed in a screen room (which are very popular in buggy Florida) then a more moderate size would be less cost, in terms of initial outlay, filter replacement and labor for cleaning.

 

[wayner]

I wouldn't want an auto-leveler. I am loathe to pump water out of my pool, but you have to add when it gets too low for the skimmer to function. So I have an "overfill bias". Why pump out when it makes it more likely that I will have to fill in a few weeks?

You have to pay for water and even though water is plentiful where I am (I live within 500m of one of the Great Lakes) you should try to minimize water usage. This summer we had a lot of rain and for a week or two my water was above my skimmer level. So I did a bit more manual skimming, but my pool survived and I don't think I added water more than 2-3 times this summer.

 

[Bperry]

I wouldn't want an auto-leveler. I am loathe to pump water out of my pool, but you have to add when it gets too low for the skimmer to function. So I have an "overfill bias". Why pump out when it makes it more likely that I will have to fill in a few weeks?

You have to pay for water and even though water is plentiful where I am (I live within 500m of one of the Great Lakes) you should try to minimize water usage. This summer we had a lot of rain and for a week or two my water was above my skimmer level. So I did a bit more manual skimming, but my pool survived and I don't think I added water more than 2-3 times this summer.

I’ve got the opposite problem, the pool will overflow if I let it during the rainy season.

 

[Dirk]

I wouldn't want an auto-leveler. I am loathe to pump water out of my pool,

This is why you would want an auto-leveler (not just an auto-filler or overflow grate).

As I mentioned, you do NOT want a pool to overflow. It's bad for the pool, for the deck and for your surrounding landscaping (even a non-swg pool becomes a saltwater pool eventually). And with a typical overflow system, which is just a hole or grate permanently fixed in your edge tile, the overflow level is also fixed (and can become clogged up with surface debris, like leaves).

But with an auto-leveler, both the normal level and the overflow level are fully adjustable. So if you decide you want to capture the maximum amount of water your pool can hold, without overflowing, then you can adjust the leveler to capture that amount. And then allow that extra water to evaporate back down to the "normal" level, at which point the leveler will maintain that level and not below. And the leveler takes and adds water from about 2' below the surface, and so is not subjected to getting clogged up.

I also mentioned that you can temporarily or permanently defeat either the filling or the emptying quite easily, so if you later decide you don't want to use either feature, or both, you can make it so, even on a daily, weekly or seasonal basis. But adding either capability to a pool after it has been built is virtually impossible (or rather, very cost prohibitive). I actually practice what I preach! I raise the overflow level in the winter, to capture as much water as possible. This creates little water exchanges that help clear excess CH from my pool. But I wouldn't want the pool that high during swim season, as it will just overflow the coping when kids are jumping in. So in the summer I lower the overflow level back down, closer to my normal level. It takes about 20 seconds to make that adjustment.

And who knows what the future will bring. Perhaps you start traveling a lot and are not around as much to monitor and adjust your pool's level manually. Or perhaps you someday become less physically able to do so. Or maybe weather patterns change and you get way too much rain, or almost none at all (yah, that's a thing). You can't really change your mind about not wanting an auto-leveler. Well, you can change your mind, you just can't change your pool!

IMO, there is no good reason to not install a leveling system during construction, as that allows you all the options.

 

[wayner]

Ok, but my (saltwater) pool has never overflowed, and never even come close to overflowing in the 16 years that I have had it, at least not during the swimming season. During the winter, it does overflow many years as snow and rain enter through the mesh safety cover. But the overflow doesn't seem to cause any damage to adjacent flower gardens or lawn and I don't think an auto leveler would be relevant during the winter either as all pipes are blown out as part of the winterization so that they do not freeze and crack.

But I guess you can just keep the leveler turned off. It would be ideal if you could turn off the exit if you so desired, but it keep it filled to a minimum level.

 

[Dirk]

Ok, but my (saltwater) pool has never overflowed, and never even come close to overflowing in the 16 years that I have had it, at least not during the swimming season. During the winter, it does overflow many years as snow and rain enter through the mesh safety cover. But the overflow doesn't seem to cause any damage to adjacent flower gardens or lawn and I don't think an auto leveler would be relevant during the winter either as all pipes are blown out as part of the winterization so that they do not freeze and crack.

But I guess you can just keep the leveler turned off. It would be ideal if you could turn off the exit if you so desired, but it keep it filled to a minimum level.

You do bring up an important point, that the supply line to the auto-filler must be considered during freezing temps. So that would be an extra step when the other plumbing pipes are emptied. But, if I understand winterizing a pool correctly, the level is dropped below the returns, so everything is blown out and not used in the winter. I don't see the problem of having a leveler system in that scenario. It would get blown out, too. (Like you said.)

Damage to surrounding landscaping is only one danger of overflowing a pool. And of course, your selection of plants would not be the same as others. Granted, a saltwater pool is not the ocean, and you'd have to overflow it a lot to affect surrounding plants, but it's still a consideration. Water getting between the shell and the surrounding dirt, or the deck and the underlying soil, is bad. Ideally, nothing should disturb the soil surrounding a pool shell, as that can lead to structural damage if severe enough. Technically, the deck and its expansion joint should be shedding water away from the shell, but that assumes it was built correctly and is being well maintained.

That all said, my primary reason for loving my auto-leveler is that I never have to think about, or do anything about, the water level in my pool. Where I live, that would be almost a daily chore and would mean I couldn't leave my pool for a week without a babysitter, in any season. No thanks.

 

[Bperry]

During the winter, it does overflow many years as snow and rain enter through the mesh safety cover. But the overflow doesn't seem to cause any damage to adjacent flower gardens or lawn and I don't think an auto leveler would be relevant during the winter either as all pipes are blown out

Be very wary of letting it overflow like that. If you have any gaps or cracks in the coping, inside the skimmer-coping joint, etc water seeping in through there can saturate the soil underneath the decking and cause lots of damage over time. I just finish fixing all the damage that was done slowly over 20 years because of it.

 

[wayner]

Be very wary of letting it overflow like that. If you have any gaps or cracks in the coping, inside the skimmer-coping joint, etc water seeping in through there can saturate the soil underneath the decking and cause lots of damage over time. I just finish fixing all the damage that was done slowly over 20 years because of it.

Surely this happens in all pools with mesh covers, in freezing locations, does it not? How would you prevent it? Put a sump pump to pump out water whenever it gets above freezing?

 

[Bperry]

Surely this happens in all pools with mesh covers, in freezing locations, does it not? How would you prevent it? Put a sump pump to pump out water whenever it gets above freezing?

Yep, I have a siphon contraption I use since I’m on a hill. If we got more than a foot of snow on the ground it might be more of a problem, or I’d have to sue a solid cover.

 

[wayner]

Yep, I have a siphon contraption I use since I’m on a hill. If we got more than a foot of snow on the ground it might be more of a problem, or I’d have to sue a solid cover.

But you are in a fairly temperate area, not like those of us in Canada or the more northerly US.

A foot of snow? Says (in Canadian) Hold my beer!

 

[Newdude]

Wayne, we have many snow birds here who take off for warmer weather and the pool just sits until they get back. I have no clue how more of them don't have patio damage each year, either from being undermined or the freeze thaw / heave cycles. Maybe everyone needs a paver/slab reset every 5 years and they blame it on the patio, not the pool, I dunno. But if you're around to drain it, I drain mine right before the big freeze and that should get me until it thaws.

 

[Bperry]

Wayne, we have many snow birds here who take off for warmer weather and the pool just sits until they get back. I have no clue how more of them don't have patio damage each year, either from being undermined or the freeze thaw / heave cycles. Maybe everyone needs a paver/slab reset every 5 years and they blame it on the patio, not the pool, I dunno. But if you're around to drain it, I drain mine right before the big freeze and that should get me until it thaws.

Maybe lots use solid covers.

 

[wayner]

I am pretty sure that in this area most folks use mesh safety covers.

 

[wayner]

Wayne, we have many snow birds here who take off for warmer weather and the pool just sits until they get back. I have no clue how more of them don't have patio damage each year, either from being undermined or the freeze thaw / heave cycles. Maybe everyone needs a paver/slab reset every 5 years and they blame it on the patio, not the pool, I dunno. But if you're around to drain it, I drain mine right before the big freeze and that should get me until it thaws.

So you keep your pool empty, or almost empty for the winter? Or do you just drain it down a foot or two?

 

[Newdude]

So you keep your pool empty, or almost empty for the winter? Or do you just drain it down a foot or two?

I get about 3 ft if off season accumulation. I start a foot low, drain another foot right before it freezes and then by the time it thaws I'm almost full again needing a 3rd drain.

I am pretty sure that in this area most folks use mesh safety covers.

I heard so much about them for so long, when I finally got a pool I was stunned that it appeared so solid. I held it up to the sun and saw no light whatsoever. I reckon the 99% thing is close enough for them to claim when it's really 99.6%(?).

Water passes through it, but it takes hours to clear the puddle. With heavy rains it may take days.

 

[wayner]

I may try your method - my pool is supposed to be covered this week. In December, assuming that temps are above freezing, I may throw in the sump pump and take some water out if it has filled up. My pool is salt water so presumably it won't freeze at 0C. But this thread says that the freezing point would be about 0.19 degrees C.

My mesh cover is partially see through so it must be from a different fabric. Mine is quite clearly a mesh and doesn't look solid.

 

[Newdude]

I may throw in the sump pump and take some water out if it has filled up

Keep an eye on the long range forecast and check it just before the cold sets in.

My pool is salt water so presumably it won't freeze at 0C

It's. not. saltwater.

At 10% seawater salinity it behaves far closer to freshwater, and may even be considered freshwater as they all disagree exactly where the levels should be defined. Some say it's freshwater like NOAA and others like the national geological whoevs say no. Personally I go with the oceanographers and not the geologists. Maybe one day I'll need to know how salty my rock is and the geologists will know better, but that's not today.

Anywho, actual salt water does pick up a couple degrees before freezing but evenso, 4 degrees is laughable for Toronto winters. That was *if* you had salt water, which you don't.

My mesh cover is partially see through so it must be from a different fabric. Mine is quite clearly a mesh and doesn't look solid.

They make different densities and most manufacturers make 95%, 99% and solid.

 

[ajw22]

My pool is salt water so presumably it won't freeze at 0C. But this thread says that the freezing point would be about 0.19 degrees C.

Read...

The Physics of Freezing and Freeze Protection

Recently, there have been a lot of questions from those living in moderate climates about using automatic freeze protection or running pumps to prevent freezing and what a pool owner should do when temperatures drop so I thought it might be useful to have a thread which dealt with the issue from...

www.troublefreepool.com