Is TFP truly cutting the mustard?

[Katygreys]

Ok, what’s the deal? I’m following all TFP rules, regulations, bylaws, and covenants. If I don’t brush every week I start getting mustard algae. It begins to appear on the sides of the shaded walls of the pool, never the bottom. It brushes off easily and you can see the “poof” of MA dust as you brush. So I’m positive it’s MA and not pollen.

So if I was a religious brusher and brushed every 7 days, I would likely never know I had an issue. But if I neglect to brush weekly, boom it comes back. So now I’m starting to wonder, have I had MA for a year or so and I just never knew it? I thought TFP was going to keep me in the clear.

Right now I just finished SLAM and am half way thru my 24hr MA SLAM (34 FC for 60 CYA). I pulled the lights and there is zero nastiness behind them (surprisingly and somewhat disappointedly… as I was morbidly looking forward to finding a bunch of disgusting green stuff behind the lights that I could brush away with a toothbrush and then delight in contemplating it’s death-by-elevated-FC fate, but alas the light cavities were spotless). So after the MA SLAM process am I to expect 1) As long as I follow TFP rules I will never have MA again (except if MA is transferred via bathing suit by someone who just swam in a MA infested lake/pond/bay/estuary/tidal flat); or 2) MA could pop up again but if I brush every week I’d never know it.

I hope my point is not lost in my ramblings. That is: if you have MA and you follow TFP, which includes a weekly brushing, you may never know you have MA since the brushing keeps it at bay. Is this reasoning correct?

 

[reggiehammond]

To finish SLAM, you know the criteria:
1) Pass OCLT
2) Crystal Clear Water
3) CC lower than 0.5

Are you sure you're passing that?
If you're able to brush up algae (a nice poof) then you didn't pass #2.

The high CYA level is really hurting your efforts... can you share your pool math logs?

 

[Donldson]

What FC levels are you keeping during normal operation?

 

[Katygreys]

The observation of yellow stuff on the wall and subsequent “poof” when brushing is what instigated the SLAM. I am not seeing the poof during the slam.

I think my CYA is closer to 50 to be honest, but you know the deal, it’s hard to tell. So I input 60 into PM to yield higher (more conservative) FC SLAM.

I slammed at 24 FC. OCLT was 1ppm with absolute zero (Kelvin Scale) CC. Water is crystal clear. I then bumped to Ma Slam level of 34.

I don’t think high CYA is necessarily hurting my slam efforts, it’s just resulting in more bleach being dumped in the pool.

At the end of the day I’m interested in the questions:

If a pool has zero MA and TFP is followed, can MA just appear?

If I follow TFP and I brush often enough to not see MA appear, could I have MA and not even know it?

If the answer to the second question is yes, then a prudent step to confirm no Ma after a Ma slam could be: don’t brush for, say, 2 weeks to confirm Ma is gone. Call it a two week sans brushing mustard algae eradication test (TWSBMAET)…basically the OCLT versioned for Ma

 

[Katygreys]

I dose to 11ppm expecting to lose 2-4ppm daily and not flirt with min.

 

[Mdragger88]

After completing regular slam then following the MA protocol you should probably maintain fc at or above MA minimum- some people need to do this indefinitely, some just for a little while after, ymmv.

Chlorine/CYA Chart

EDIT: You will find a simplified and standardized version of this chart at Pool School, Chlorine / CYA Chart. Chlorine/CYA Chart by Chemgeek FC = Free Chlorine in parts-per-million (ppm) CYA = Cyanuric Acid in parts-per-million (ppm) CYA ........... Min FC3 ..... Target FC ...... Yel/Mstrd...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Newdude]

I dose to 11ppm expecting to lose 2-4ppm daily and not flirt with min

*takes victory lap*




Sorry, but for everyone who listens, it seems like 15 come back and tell us the FC, was like 3, the other day when they tested last.

I'm enjoying this win.

 

[Katygreys]

Ahhhhhhh!! I didn’t catch that there was a **MA min FC**. Ahaaaa!! Ok cool. Sort of.

That would mean at 60 Cya never dipping below 9FC in the blazing houston summer sun. Which would honestly mean dosing to 13 or more likely 14 FC at night. Hmm…..

What are your thoughts about NOT brushing for a length of time to confirm MA is gone? Seems like brushing regularly will definitely mask the presence of Ma.

 

[mknauss]

I would think the brushing is what keeps the MA away. It disrupts the colony before it can establish.

A robot that brushes the pool walls may be a great help in your case.

 

[Katygreys]

*takes victory lap*

View attachment 494973


Sorry, but for everyone who listens, it seems like 15 come back and tell us the FC, was like 3, the other day when they tested last.

I'm enjoying this win.

Hhaha yea, it took me a while to figure out this very simple concept. At first I was afraid of dosing to 11 because of general pool store propaganda about FC between one and three or whatever they push these days. When I realized that swimming in 11 FC and 5FC is 100% indistinguishable …that was the moment

If we know we are going to have a huge party with like 20 or 30 people in and out of the pool all day. I will dose to 13 or so. Sometimes I tell people that I don’t have any chlorine in my pool and they say “yeah it’s nice, your pool is so clean and I can’t smell any chlorine it’s great”

Chlorine is our friend.

 

[Katygreys]

I would think the brushing is what keeps the MA away. It disrupts the colony before it can establish.

A robot that brushes the pool walls may be a great help in your case.

Yea ok, I mean I guess so. I’m not a biologist, but my thought process is that if the act of not brushing leads to visible MA, then maybe when I brush weekly and don’t see MA, I actually still have it swimming around in my water. Who knows. I guess it doesn’t matter much as we have been TFPing for a year and we are still alive and not sick.

But I’ll tell ya, I wasn’t expecting to slam because I Tfp… but the slam is actually making me feel good. Like a fresh start

 

[Newdude]

But I’ll tell ya, I wasn’t expecting to slam because I Tfp… but the slam is actually making me feel good. Like a fresh start

That's the difference between rookies and pros. Rookies sit around making excuses why they don't need to OCLT/SLAM.

Pros SLAM first and usually pass the OCLT soon thereafter, having nipped it in the bud.

One of the above is gifted a swamp for their efforts.

 

[Bperry]

Yea ok, I mean I guess so. I’m not a biologist, but my thought process is that if the act of not brushing leads to visible MA, then maybe when I brush weekly and don’t see MA, I actually still have it swimming around in my water. Who knows. I guess it doesn’t matter much as we have been TFPing for a year and we are still alive and not sick.

But I’ll tell ya, I wasn’t expecting to slam because I Tfp… but the slam is actually making me feel good. Like a fresh start

It’s anecdotal, but for what it’s worth I rarely brush the walls and don’t get algae (MA or otherwise). Maybe you have a different environment.

 

[Mdragger88]

Maybe you have a different environment.

This
The pool is a giant open top filter for the surrounding environment. We can’t control what all blows in. All we can do is make the pool an environment that it can’t thrive in. The op may have something near by, maybe a float once from the lake , really no telling. Some pools have more trouble with it than others. Maintaining MA minimum for a while after following all the proper slam & ma protocols is good insurance especially if it’s a recurring issue in spite of best practices. Along with frequent brushing as @mknauss mentioned, this helps make it an inhospitable environment since it helps remove the biofilms all algae forms to protect itself from chlorine.
It’s just like your teeth , technically you might be able to get away with only using listerine for a while & not brushing but the listerine alone can only do so much for so long, eventually the tartar will build & cavities will happen under there where the listerine can no longer reach.

 

[reggiehammond]

If the answer to the second question is yes, then a prudent step to confirm no Ma after a Ma slam could be: don’t brush for, say, 2 weeks to confirm Ma is gone. Call it a two week sans brushing mustard algae eradication test (TWSBMAET)…basically the OCLT versioned for Ma

What is your water source? Any issues with iron staining in the past?

Brushing disrupts the bio-film that bacteria creates - similar to how the paper towel after washing your hands actually does more work than soap. Mechanical action is your friend when fighting bacteria.

When you begin to see the algae reappear, what happens if you do a OCLT? Do you pass?
I’d love to see photos of what you’re seeing when it’s at its worst. Might help

 

[Katygreys]

Tap water in Katy, TX. I know of no iron issues.

I didnt do an OCLT before the slam, but good point. I’ll do that if it pops up again. Same thing with taking some pics.

The main thing I got from this is the Mustard Algae FC Minimum, which I didn’t realize was a thing. I’ll keep it above the MAFC Min for a week or so to be safe then go back to normal ops.

Thanks TFP. Y’all definitely cut the mustard.

 

[mknauss]

Tap water in Katy, TX. I know of no iron issues.

Tap water in Katy has iron in it. Luckily, you get enough rain to dilute your pool water so it typically is not an issue except at initial fill.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

You could supplement your sanitation with regular doses of Polyquat-60 algaecide, use borates, and/or test for phosphates and see if you need to treat the water to remove them. All of those options are supplemental methods to good chlorine sanitation that makes the water much less hospitable to algae growth.

 

[JamesW]

Is TFP truly cutting the mustard?

We cut the cheese; does that count?

Anywho, if you are getting algae, you are not maintaining the chlorine at adequate levels.

Also, brush the pool twice a week.

 

[Newdude]

Anywho, if you are getting algae, you are not maintaining the chlorine at adequate levels.

+1. There alway has to be a pool that's the exception to the rule. TFP teaches us to know/recognize what's going on and plan ahead.

You also had the disappearing CYA that was against the norm, but you also had the knowledge of what to do about it.