Terminating Builder
- Thread starter Texas Ranger
- Start date
It's not really up to them.
You can fire anyone at any time if you don't want to deal with them.
At this point, you have to make your position clear and decide how much you're willing to fight it out.
If you can't negotiate a settlement, you can file a lawsuit or they can or you both can with a suit and countersuit.
No telling how it would come out in court.
It all depends on how compelling your case is vs. the builder's case.
If you have paid $45,000.00, how much do you feel the current work is worth?
How much do you want back?
Was the gunite subcontracted out?
Have all subcontractors been paid?
For starters……..welcome to TFP!
May I ask, just what sort of issues have arose? How long have you been dealing with these issues?? It sounds like you maybe inviting more trouble firing the builder compared to trying to work with them. You’re in a very sticky situation as I suspect it’s going to be VERY difficult to find contractors that are willing to work on something somebody else started. Tread very lightly, make sure you’re not allowing your frustration multiply the problems.
May I ask, just what sort of issues have arose? How long have you been dealing with these issues?? It sounds like you maybe inviting more trouble firing the builder compared to trying to work with them. You’re in a very sticky situation as I suspect it’s going to be VERY difficult to find contractors that are willing to work on something somebody else started. Tread very lightly, make sure you’re not allowing your frustration multiply the problems.
Permits, excavation, plumbing, gunite. I’m asking for actual invoice copies, but certain the aforementioned is not $45k. I would have to look at invoices and see what would be considered a fair offer. I did not subcontract out, done by builder’s subs.
No idea if his subcontractors have been paid. I’ll have to ask in writing and get statement saying such.
Thanks for the welcome! Issues pertain to lack of effective communication, which has resulted in having to go back and redo some work. I was home so I caught most of it in time. Attention to details when being billed. Lack of trust. Personality conflicts. Just a sample of things that have been adding up over the last few months. I made recommendations to improve, but PM won’t agree to, although owner did. It’s the son causing more issues than needed. Yes, it could be challenging, but fortunately I live in a large metropolitan area, so plenty of pool subs. I would never again hire a family-ran business for any home improvement projects. Lesson learned.
- Jan 7, 2019
- 237
- Pool Size
- 14344
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
We had a similar issue with our 1st pool. We were slightly further along than you are and the Pb actually ghosted us and never showed back up. Lyons at first was hesitant but actually released the remaining funds to me so that I could pay subs to finish the pool.
That worked out well in your favor. Lyon seems very customer friendly. I’m gng to ask about that, but if not, I’ll pay as I go. How did the wrap up progress go? Any regrets or helpful tips?
- Sep 3, 2018
- 1,340
- Pool Size
- 17000
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I would also add, while going through the conversation, that I was told point blank (and I quote) “communication is not in the contract.” This was my biggest complaint that set this in motion. Guess it reflects on their true motive: you’d rhe want they want and collect their money.
Trust me. The 2 dudes in a rusty van that Home Depot sub sub sub contracts to install your doors/windows won't ever be tracked down starting the moment they leave. They got paid next to nothing for their work and if they were any good at it, they'd be working for themselves getting paid master carpenter rates, which you still paid to Home Depot, but for 2 dudes in a rusty van.
I understand your current mood about thinking you would have fared better with a corporation. My own recent build could be your story except I didn't fire them, the PB fired the GC and did better, but still not great. But you have actual people to hold accountable both in person and in court. Good luck complaining to Home Depot (etc). Good luck having your online review seen amongst millions of others. Good luck fighting their high priced lawyers.
The grass isn't always greener...... ya know ?
I would re-read this excellent post from Leebo
As always, one on one (sounds like best with the son if he can represent the company). face-to-face honest conversation will net you the best financial result. Lawyers, BBB (worthless), and complaining to others will only entrench your adversarial relationship and you will both be losers.
If you just cannot deal with them one on one, consider a professional arbitrator.
I get the impression that "getting even" has come in to play and that might get you some satisfaction but it will be at a cost.
As always, one on one (sounds like best with the son if he can represent the company). face-to-face honest conversation will net you the best financial result. Lawyers, BBB (worthless), and complaining to others will only entrench your adversarial relationship and you will both be losers.
If you just cannot deal with them one on one, consider a professional arbitrator.
It’s just my opinion but…If you do have to go to court, I’m afraid you’ll need better reasons than stated above for canceling a contract. You’ll need actually examples of things they did wrong or were illegal.
I’m not a pool contractor but gunite is probably one of the most expensive portions so I’d imagine $45k to get through gunite isn’t that far off.
- Jul 20, 2007
- 137
- Pool Size
- 30000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
I will further add, that you saying it’s not correct may not be enough - you may need a professionals opinion to back yours. Unless it’s something obvious to someone who knows nothing about pools, like a bond wire going across an opening for stairs.
You can fire anyone at any time without a reason.
Without a good reason, you have to pay all of their costs up to the point where you fire them.
They can submit a bill for their expenses and you can negotiate that.
I see we are hitting people below the belt today. Thanks for the heads up.
You should have the new contractors verify all work up to the present time to make sure that it is good quality including pressure testing the plumbing before you agree to a final settlement.
The lack of warranty is a significant loss of value and I would require a significant discount to the value of work completed so far.
Maybe subtract 20% for the lack of warranty.
Also, a builder cannot just say that there will be no warranty on their work.
Any work automatically comes with an implied warranty.
If a defect is found at any time, the builder is responsible for the cost to remedy the defect.
If you agree to accept the work "as-is" with no warranty, then that can absolve them of warranty responsibility, but you should require a big discount to do so.
Steady there. Now you’re crossing into my lane. I think you can fire an employee, in most places, at any time, for any reason (except unlawful reasons such as discriminatory reasons). You can’t terminate a contract with a contractor except by the terms of the contract. If there’s no “out” clause in the contract and it’s terminated for a reason not permitted in the contract, the PB can recover expenses in + expected profit from the contract. Lawyers can be very expensive. If the PB is willing to go away with getting paid for what was actually done and a no disparagement clause, it may not be a bad deal. I may be, but it might not be. Working things out for a mutual walk away almost always costs much less than the hammer and tongs.
They can try to get whatever they think they can get.
To get more than the client is willing to pay, the builder has to file suit, present a compelling case and win the lawsuit.
That takes a lot of time and money.
So, it will come down to the case the client can present vs. the case the builder can present and the judge will decide what is fair.
You can also look for reasons that disqualify the builder like a lack of a valid required business license, contractor's license or trade license.
Was a permit issued?
That's what really tweaks my melons these days. No matter how incompetent or lazy a PB was, the have an easy out in court blaming the shortages.
Whether it's materials or labor, or inexperienced labor filling in for the shortage of labor, they have a blanket excuse that the judge has seen in their own life. The judge will think to themselves that nobody gets anything done quickly or cheap these days, and rarely with the proper parts, as they side with PB.