New quartz finish, after 1 week still not a lot of aggregate exposed.

[bigorangesky]

They used CL Industries product, and I'm following the startup instructions to keep TA at 80, and pH at 7.2. I've been brushing everyday, but you can see in there pictures, only some aggregate is exposed. They told me brushing would expose it all ... But I'm getting worried now.
I asked about acid wash and was told "they don't do that".
What do you think, and what can I do?

 

[Toxophilite]

I can't see how they advise brushing is going to remove and expose the aggregate from under hardened plaster finish! That's done during application with a water nozzle before it dries and right behind the troweling. As they are troweling it all to smooth, someone would be going behind lightly misting/washing the top coat off to expose the aggregate. After it hardens, the acid wash just removes the slurry hazing.

 

[ajw22]

Brushing is not going to change what you have.

What you have is the way it will be.

You don't want to acid wash it.

 

[Nikilyn]

When we were looking at getting quartz they told us that we wouldn’t see much of the quartz when they did it and it would take a year or two to really see it. Their display pool showed the quartz crystals but had been their a couple years. They ended up redoing their showroom and, sure enough, you could barely see them. Could possibly be the same for you.

 

[bigorangesky]

Text from the plaster contractor:
It will take the whole curing process to come out. The samples are washed to show all of the rock. To do that over the whole surface of the pool takes 5 to 10 years off the life of the marcite.

The finish feels really nice and smooth for the most part ... Just not the depth of color from quartz aggregate I was expecting. No one told me it might be like this . I was fully expecting some amount of inconsistency, but this is beyond that.

 

[bigorangesky]

As they are troweling it all to smooth, someone would be going behind lightly misting/washing the top coat off to expose the aggregate

This did not happen. When they finished, it was just a smooth solid blue color, no quartz. As it dried started to get a white haze which has since come off but that's it.

they told us that we wouldn’t see much of the quartz when they did it and it would take a year or two to really see it

I don't understand this. Never once did I see this description from any manufacturer. I read all the info of what to expect, and watched all the videos about colors and all the factors that affect it. Every picture of quartz finish looks exactly like the samples with exposed quartz. Are the installers just doing it wrong?

Nikilyn - I saw pictures you posted on another thread and your finish looks great. Waaay better than mine. How's long has it been?

I did not anticipate this as a potential outcome. Wyatt did I have asked my builder or installer to get what I wanted?

My pool doesn't look terrible, but it's not the nice finish I was going for.

 

[Toxophilite]

Text from the plaster contractor:
It will take the whole curing process to come out. The samples are washed to show all of the rock. To do that over the whole surface of the pool takes 5 to 10 years off the life of the marcite.

The finish feels really nice and smooth for the most part ... Just not the depth of color from quartz aggregate I was expecting. No one told me it might be like this . I was fully expecting some amount of inconsistency, but this is beyond that.

I guess most folks are getting it for the smoothness and sparkle over pebble alternatives, and the PB is trying for max smoothness. The builder's answer seems part of the confusion with expectations from what I have read, but folks I know with quartz rave and don't speak about going through any such issue. I would read from that where he's showing you washed and exposed aggregate to show what it looks like in final stage, but leaving it unexposed in showing in the pool to later become exposed? Where they sponged wiped along the tiles shows the difference that has to happen if the pics are accurate. Can you deal with manufacturer rep as well?

 

[bigorangesky]

You are correct, there are some spots where the quartz is showing and these areas look great. The smoothness is wonderful, no complaints about that except the steps are a little slippery ... but I think this should go away.

Good idea on the Manufacturer, I will see what they have to say.

 

[Toxophilite]

I'm sure there's a fine line between smoothness and overall exposure, as the two seem more negatively correlated for that stuff, and that's where your expectations and the expertise on the application would come to play.

 

[Nikilyn]

This did not happen. When they finished, it was just a smooth solid blue color, no quartz. As it dried started to get a white haze which has since come off but that's it.


I don't understand this. Never once did I see this description from any manufacturer. I read all the info of what to expect, and watched all the videos about colors and all the factors that affect it. Every picture of quartz finish looks exactly like the samples with exposed quartz. Are the installers just doing it wrong?

Nikilyn - I saw pictures you posted on another thread and your finish looks great. Waaay better than mine. How's long has it been?

I did not anticipate this as a potential outcome. Wyatt did I have asked my builder or installer to get what I wanted?

My pool doesn't look terrible, but it's not the nice finish I was going for.

They were the only company we talked to that told us that, but they were also the only one with a showroom with pools that we went to. We ended up going with a micro pebble because I wanted a blue plaster and the quartz was just white and we’d had that before.

 

[bigorangesky]

Well I spoke with the manufacturer, CL Industries, and was very helpful. They confirmed my plaster guy simply did not do the procedure to expose the quartz aggregate, and this is obviously the whole point of getting it to begin with ... if you're not going to expose it, just get solid plaster only. 2 options for me now :

1. Drain the pool and do an acid wash
2. Perform a "hot start" aka Low Alkalinity Treatment. (basically keep TA=0 for a few days and brush it down)

Apparently, either can be done at any time, so no need to rush and do it right away. Makes me feel much better there is an option here. However, he does not suggest I attempt either myself, and I've no idea how I could get someone to do this work. My PB is basically going out of business and I had to pay the plaster sub directly just to get the pool finished. I'll probably wait out the rest of 28 day startup and think it over. I'm following their startup instructions which I guess is the "traditional method" ... just keep TA=80 and pH=7.2 and brush every day.

Do you think it's worth going back to the plaster guy? Would other builders touch this job? I paid him about $6,500 for the job (labor + materials), not sure if this is cheap and I just got what I paid for. Was a nice enough guy, but he did it wrong once already...

 

[bmoreswim]

My hot start was performed by my PB by dumping in numerous gallons of 31.45% muriatic acid (I don't have a note of how many they used) and brushing every day for a few days, with the filter on. That's it. We had marcite with Diamond Brite (quartz) added for color, but not as much as would be for a true quartz finish. The pH probably rose naturally but I don't recall if I added sodium carbonate (pH increaser) to assist with that after the several days.

We are now 9 years out from our initial build. The finish is still pretty smooth, while the only areas being slightly rougher are the edges of steps for some reason. The process certainly does take material off, but as CL said, how else you gonna see the aggregate?

Turns out the weak point in my pool is going to be my waterline tiles. A few have come off near the skimmer openings, which I've dutifully replaced, but this year a crack appeared on a section of about 6 tiles. Someday the tiles will need replaced and that will likely be a time for a replaster. So probably I will end up with 11-15 years, assuming the tiles don't rapidly fail. Just some big picture lifespan insight.

 

[bigorangesky]

@bmoreswim thanks for that, maybe the hot start is not overly difficult. I've also come to realize with pools you just end up replacing stuff when it breaks, no part of it is going to last forever. I had some tiles fall off while we waited weeks for the coping to get installed.

I took a video to better show the plaster:

 

[ImpalaSS]

I have Diamond Brite and my builder did the "hot start" as you call it. After the pool was filled he added several gallons of muriatic acid. This exposed the blue in the Diamond Brite. My finish has a slight rough texture, Maybe like 600-1000 grit sand paper. My friend has the same plaster but he chose not to do the hot start. His texture is much more smooth but you cannot see a lot of the blue.

 

[onBalance]

Yes, an acid treatment will generally expose the quartz aggregate and bring out more of the color. However, it should be considered that many acid treatments end up being too harsh and etching and making the surface porous, thereby shortening the life of the plaster job. That process can also cause the plaster to discolor and streak over time more so than if no acid treatment is performed.

There is another option which is draining the pool and having it polished with power sanders. That will also expose the aggregate and color. The advantage is that will retain the overall smoothness and keep the surface dense. Of course, it is far more costly to that.

 

[Toxophilite]

Yes, an acid treatment will generally expose the quartz aggregate and bring out more of the color. However, it should be considered that many acid treatments end up being too harsh and etching and making the surface porous, thereby shortening the life of the plaster job. That process can also cause the plaster to discolor and streak over time more so than if no acid treatment is performed.

There is another option which is draining the pool and having it polished with power sanders. That will also expose the aggregate and color. The advantage is that will retain the overall smoothness and keep the surface dense. Of course, it is far more costly to that.

I would agree that trying acid to this stage would be very aggressive! The time to have removed that trowel cream was before the final setting up of plaster, mechanically by hand, and even then, no acid would be involved. An acid start up after that during a normal application is not a repair. This fall under repair, not procedure.

 

[ajw22]

When my Hydrazoo quartz finish was installed the second day it was polished with diamond pads on power sanders before the pool was filled.

 

[Oly]

Thanks for the recent video.
It looks like a lot of subtle color variation and trowel marks to me at about :35 along the bottom curve to wall.

 

[Saramcgee]

This did not happen. When they finished, it was just a smooth solid blue color, no quartz. As it dried started to get a white haze which has since come off but that's it.


I don't understand this. Never once did I see this description from any manufacturer. I read all the info of what to expect, and watched all the videos about colors and all the factors that affect it. Every picture of quartz finish looks exactly like the samples with exposed quartz. Are the installers just doing it wrong?

Nikilyn - I saw pictures you posted on another thread and your finish looks great. Waaay better than mine. How's long has it been?

I did not anticipate this as a potential outcome. Wyatt did I have asked my builder or installer to get what I wanted?

My pool doesn't look terrible, but it's not the nice finish I was going for.

This is the exact issue I’m going through. I’ve been researching the heck out of this topic. My plaster looks Smurf blue with no aggregate

 

[Staceyleah22]

maybe the hot start is not overly difficult

My PB used 16 gallons of muriatic (20 baume), 1 gallon magenta magic, and 32 oz of Metal Magic. Didn’t seem to difficult just make sure your face isn’t in the fumes from the muriatic when you pour it in.

We are on Day 2 of treatment. Brushing a ton. Pump runs 23 hours per day with the heater bypassed. pH is super low, my kit won’t measure it.