Waterfall doesn't get enough pressure to clear side of pool.

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M

mocka300

Member
Jun 4, 2022
24
Upper Marlboro, Maryland
Pool Size
30000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Truclear / Ei
Hi there, My pool is a new construction and the pool builder is trying to get my waterfall to clear the coping on the side of the pool. The pump has been upgraded to a Jandy variable speed pump 1.65 (VS FLOPRO) and while it has much more pressure, it still isn't clearing completely.

The pool builder is planning to add a valve into the piping before the filter, and run it to the waterfall return. I really don't understand much of this but I was curious if the piping itself is causing the problem with the pressure. The pipes were initially put in the wrong place. There are three sheer descents in a row. The middle one was in the right place but the other two were not. I think how they fixed it was they used 90 degree pipes. I need to verify this, but that is my recollection. There is board on the back of the wall and some concrete, so I am unable to see all the pipes.

Attached is a picture of the waterfall. I am also curious how far the waterfall should clear the coping on the pool. For example, 3" or so. The sheer descents are 18", 24", and 18". Also the pipe is coming into the wall from the right and the wall is about 50' or so from the equipment.

IMG_2705.jpeg
 
How much projection are you trying to get?

How high are the shears above the coping?

For example if the sheers are 3 foot above the coping and you want 2 feet of projection, you need 20 gpm per linear foot of sheer.

With 5 feet of linear sheer waterfall, you need 75 to 100 GPM for good projection.


For suction, you want to keep the water velocity below 6 ft/sec. For returns, you want to keep the water velocity below 8 ft/sec.

Size.......6 ft/sec......8 ft/sec.
1.5"...........38...............51 gpm
2"..............63...............84 gpm
2.5............90.............119 gpm
3.0".........138.............184 gpm

Assuming a 100 GPM flow rate, the suction should be 3" and I would plumb each waterfall separately with a 1.5" line going to each sheer.

A 2.7 HP variable speed pump or a water feature pump should be used for the pump.



1654539648006.png
 
For the 1.65 HP VS FloPro to hit 100 GPM, the head loss would need to be less than about 38 feet.

The 2.7 VS FloPro can get to 100 GPM at 3,450 RPM, 3,000 RPM or down to 2,750 RPM depending on the head loss.


1654544710072.png
1654544947957.png


www.engineeringtoolbox.com

PVC Pipes Schedule 40 - Friction Loss vs. Water Flow

Water flow in thermoplastic PVC and CPVC pipes Schedule 40 - friction loss <i>(ft/100 ft, psi/100 ft)</i> and flow velocities at dimensions ranging 1/2 to 16 inches.
www.engineeringtoolbox.com www.engineeringtoolbox.com

If you have 100 feet of 2" PVC, the head loss at 100 GPM is about 15 feet and the velocity is about 9.8 ft/sec.

1654545277387.png

Is the sheer on a separate system or part of the main filtration?

What is the filter pressure?

Head loss with a 2.7 HP VS pump can be from about 31 feet to about 68 feet.

What are the pipe sizes for suction and return?

Can you show pictures of the system?
 
300,

Your pool builder kind of screwed you. Shears should be installed so that you can adjust the flow to suit your needs. In your case, it appears to me you are going to have to run at full speed and I am not sure that will be enough.

You really don't want to pump unfiltered water into the shears, or they will be clogged in a few weeks.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Thank you all for the posts. The pipe size is 2" and pressure is at 8. The sheers are 2' from the water and ideally I'd like them to come out about 14". That would allow for 8" clearance of the coping and still be out from the coping 6". I could handle even 12" out, allowing for 4" out from coping. The picture showing the piping of the waterfall is before they moved the two outside ones closer to the middle one. That is where I think the 90 degree angles are.

IMG_2713.jpegIMG_2706.jpegIMG_2708.jpegIMG_9174.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Jimrahbe said:
300,

Your pool builder kind of screwed you. Shears should be installed so that you can adjust the flow to suit your needs. In your case, it appears to me you are going to have to run at full speed and I am not sure that will be enough.

You really don't want to pump unfiltered water into the shears, or they will be clogged in a few weeks.

Thanks,

Jim R.
Click to expand...
I just posted some pics of the equipment setup. You are correct, we have to turn the pump to 4 and shut off the flow to everything else. My husband did say the water is being filtered though. We turn the jets and bubbler to an off position and shut off the floor returns and what you see in my picture is what we get. I am still working on a fix with the builder, so I am looking to figure out what my options might be.
 
Can you tell us what each line goes to?
1)
2)
3)
4)
5) Polaris Return.

In the below picture lines lines 2, 4 and 5 are open.

You are losing some water to the Polaris before the fountain.

1654548931112.png
 

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Is this what you are asking for? Speed 4 is the max.


Pipe SizeMaximum Flow Suction
(6 feet per second)		Maximum Flow Discharge
(8 feet per second)
11⁄2" (38 mm)37 GPM (140 LPM)50 GPM (189 LPM)
2" (51 mm)62 GPM (235 LPM)85 GPM (322 LPM)
21⁄2" (64 mm)88 GPM (333 LPM)120 GPM (454 LPM)
3" (76 mm)136 GPM (515 LPM)184 GPM (697 LPM)
4" (102 mm)234 GPM (886 LPM)313 GPM (1185 LPM)
 
JamesW said:
Can you tell us what each line goes to?
1)
2)
3)
4)
5) Polaris Return.

In the below picture lines lines 2, 4 and 5 are open.

You are losing some water to the Polaris before the fountain.

View attachment 420110
Click to expand...
1. Bubbler
2. Jets
3. Waterfall
4. Floor Returns
When I turn on the waterfall I turn the bubbler and jets to off and the floor return to off. The service tech plugged the Polaris port and it worked well. Thing is we can't do that every time and it isn't easy to get the plug to stay in. I'm wondering if the extra valve the pool company said they will put in is going to do the trick. I've had enough issues with the pool that I have lost confidence. I posted earlier about my stone and I am doing another post about a stain in the plaster.
 
Overall, the design is not really good.

In any case, some water is being lost to the Polaris, but it is difficult to determine how much.

Check to see if the Polaris cleaner wall fitting has a red or blue restrictor disc in the fitting and that should help.

Going to a bigger pump would probably work at less than full speed.


1654551656349.png
 
JamesW said:
Overall, the design is not really good.

In any case, some water is being lost to the Polaris, but it is difficult to determine how much.

Check to see if the Polaris cleaner wall fitting has a red or blue restrictor disc in the fitting and that should help.

Going to a bigger pump would probably work at less than full speed.


View attachment 420134
Click to expand...
 
JamesW said:
Check to see if the Polaris cleaner wall fitting has a red or blue restrictor disc in the fitting and that should help.
Click to expand...
1654553911750.png
Look into the wall fitting and see if the restrictor disc is in or if there is no disc.

If no disc, put one in and see if that helps.

Can you confirm the actual RPM for speed 4?
 

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