Need new pump: VS with solar panels?

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J

John Rock

Well-known member
Apr 10, 2010
110
Montreal, Quebec
Hi,

My Hayward 1.5 Super Pump is about to die, and I think I'm sold on going to a VS speed pump for the energy savings, quieter operation and longer life span (based on this gov article)

I know this isn't a new question, but every situation is different and pumps evolve, so seeking guidance please.

Situation:
- Inground pool is rectangle 16x32
- Polaris cleaner with it's own booster pump
- Solar heating panels on the roof of my house, about 2 and 3 stories above the pump (2 sections). They are automated based on temperature gap between pool and roof, so stops at night mostly.

Questions:
- Assuming that the pump needs to be stronger when the solar panels are activated, how do you adjust the pump accordingly given it's automated? Can it adjust itself?
- What are your recommendations for 2022? Any new improvements in the market?

Thanks!
 
The Super Pump is a medium-head pump. They move a ton of water if that is all you need, but adding solar puts a larger strain on the design. You may want to consider going to a high-head model. (Different types of pumps - Hayward POOLSIDE Blog)

With a clean filter and solar I have always set up a VSP to operate at the speed it takes to keep the vacuum-relief closed plus about 10% to allow for a dirty filter.
 
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Thanks for the reply. My understanding was that the head consideration what just to make sure that the solar system can be fully filled with water. After that, it's less of issue? In any case, my current pump seems "adequate", in the sense that my solar heat works when engaged, but the flow is much weaker.

This makes me think that when heating, which is pretty much all day long in Canada (pool never gets to hot), I do need the full force of the pump. At night or in the off season, it could run in a lower cost-savings mode.

I just discovered that my Aqua Solar GL-235 controller has a relay that could be used to control a pump, so perhaps a 2-speed pump controlled by the GL-235 would do the trick. Now I need to figure out which one :unsure:
 
John Rock said:
Thanks for the reply. My understanding was that the head consideration what just to make sure that the solar system can be fully filled with water. After that, it's less of issue? In any case, my current pump seems "adequate", in the sense that my solar heat works when engaged, but the flow is much weaker.

This makes me think that when heating, which is pretty much all day long in Canada (pool never gets to hot), I do need the full force of the pump. At night or in the off season, it could run in a lower cost-savings mode.

I just discovered that my Aqua Solar GL-235 controller has a relay that could be used to control a pump, so perhaps a 2-speed pump controlled by the GL-235 would do the trick. Now I need to figure out which one :unsure:
Click to expand...
The GL-235, while an excellent solar controller, will not control a 2-speed motor correctly. You would want the pump to run on high to run the solar. If the pump were running on the low speed and the solar control energized the high circuit, the best that could happen is a breaker would trip, could damage the motor. You cannot have both circuits energized simultaneously.
 
Hmmm... I'll need to do some testing to make sure since I've read conflicting information. I understood that the included "booster pump relay" was really just a relay to allows current to flow when the solar is ON, so you could supply it with low voltage (5v) just like high voltage. This part I can test easily. I also read that some 2 speed pumps have a 5v input, that allow to switch the speed of the pump. Hoping all this is possible!
 
Yes, just a dry contact. A 2-speed motor, essentially, has two sets of windings, one for high and one for low. An external switch would open one circuit and close the other to change speeds.
Two-speed motors are no longer legal in the US and most, if not all, manufacturers are discontinuing them for pool purposes by law. What 2-speed motor have you seen that uses a 5v signal? I've never seen one and am always interested in new stuff.
 
Well that would explain why I can't seem to find any! All the articles I'm seeing are saying that 2 speed is probably more cost effective, especially from someone like me that can only use a pool in the summer and has fairly low electricity costs. But the cheapest pump I've seen so far is the Pentair Superflow VS (about $1400 CAD). The good thing is that this model seems to support "External Control via Digital Inputs" (page 10 of this PDF and explained in this video as well). The special water proof cable even supplies the 5v output that you feed in the GL-235 and then you pick the color you want for the relay out. That video isn't about the Superflow VS I think, so need to double check all of this, but seems like it would work. I also need to make sure that this pump will be able to support my pool and solar setup at max RPM.
 
The manufacture of two speed pumps is not allowed. However, if can find old stock somewhere, then you are still allowed to purchase one.

How high is the roof above the pump?

Which SuperFlo where you looking at?

If the roof were 35', the SuperFlo VS should still work ok since max head is well above that. You need about 40 GPM to prime the vertical pipe which shouldn't be a problem.
 
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Even at 40' height, it looks like the SuperFlo should still work. Here is a head curve comparison between the SuperFlo 342001 and the Intelliflo VSF. Even with a very pessimistic Curve A, 1.5" plumbing and high head filter, it looks like it would prime at about 45 GPM. Once the pump primes the pipe, the vertical lift disappears and the plumbing curve offset drops to 0 and flow rate jumps to 60 GPM. The Intelliflo would prime at about 55 GPM and after prime would be about 70 GPM. But it will depend on the head loss between the pump and the solar (and suction head).

Priming:
1651847980214.png

Post Prime:
1651847992888.png
 

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John Rock said:
Well that would explain why I can't seem to find any! All the articles I'm seeing are saying that 2 speed is probably more cost effective, especially from someone like me that can only use a pool in the summer and has fairly low electricity costs. But the cheapest pump I've seen so far is the Pentair Superflow VS (about $1400 CAD). The good thing is that this model seems to support "External Control via Digital Inputs" (page 10 of this PDF and explained in this video as well). The special water proof cable even supplies the 5v output that you feed in the GL-235 and then you pick the color you want for the relay out. That video isn't about the Superflow VS I think, so need to double check all of this, but seems like it would work. I also need to make sure that this pump will be able to support my pool and solar setup at max RPM.
Click to expand...
The biggest problem with trying to get the communication cable for the SuperFlow is that they are virtually unobtainable. And, you must match the cable to the serial number of the pump as they made (make?) two different cables. The IntelliFlow cable, which can be found everywhere, won't fit. If you can get one, then it is possible, with the right combination of voltage inputs to the relay and outputs from the relay to the correct color wire, for the GL-235 to control the speed of the pump. If you are very knowledgeable and willing to figure out which pin on the communication port is voltage out and which controls the speed, there are some on this forum that have found the connection that will allow you to make your own cable.
 
I would say that the first section of solar panels is 16' above the pump, and the second section 24'. So seems like it's not that high, but need to take a step back to understand those charts o_O

But this pump/brand seems to have supplies issues. I'll check if Hayward has anything similar, allowing external control.
 
A Hayward MaxFlo VS is similar in performance to the SuperFlo VS and can be controlled with relay contacts as found in the GL-235. You don't need to buy a proprietary cable, but would need only a 4-conductor cable, like sprinkler cable. Here's the manual, look at section 5.3

You are always better off with a high head pump like the TriStar VSP. It can be controlled the same way as the MaxFlo VS. It does have a higher initial cost, but the performance may suit your application better. That being said, I just did a small electrical repair on a property where I installed one of the first MaxFlo VS pumps when they came out. The price was great and I probably installed ten of them that year. Have only had one call back on one that had an issue with the control and Hayward sent a new one the next day. That was about 10 years ago. The pool has solar heating, though not nearly as high above the pool as yours. Pump is still working great. Solar has a controller not hooked to the pump, different brand and the older pumps wouldn't work that way. Adjusted the flow so that enough would be available during the "solar" hours and they have been, according to the wife, extremely happy with the set-up.
 
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Ok, so while comparing the pros and cons of ordering online a cheaper Pentair without warranty or a more expensive Hayward with 3-year warranty, I took a look at the "V-Green" motor that I saw in one of the threads. This option is about 50% cheaper and seems to function like the Pentair for digital inputs, but without needing a special cable/connector. Assuming all these pumps should last 3 years and more, but any of them can break down at any time, it seems like buying the cheaper "V-Green" is the safer choice from a value perspective, without loosing any of the functionalities I need.

Any reason to exclude it?
 
John Rock said:
Ok, so while comparing the pros and cons of ordering online a cheaper Pentair without warranty or a more expensive Hayward with 3-year warranty, I took a look at the "V-Green" motor that I saw in one of the threads. This option is about 50% cheaper and seems to function like the Pentair for digital inputs, but without needing a special cable/connector. Assuming all these pumps should last 3 years and more, but any of them can break down at any time, it seems like buying the cheaper "V-Green" is the safer choice from a value perspective, without loosing any of the functionalities I need.

Any reason to exclude it?
Click to expand...
Be absolutely sure to match the total horsepower of the V-Green to the total horsepower of the pump you now have. There are 2 V-Green motors, 2.7thp and 1.65thp (and there are now a couple of smaller ones). Total horsepower of your existing pump is the rated horsepower X service factor. These numbers should be on the rating plate.
 
John Rock said:
Looks good. My HP is 1.5 and SF 1.0, so the V-Green 165 should have enough power and they sell a Super Pump version to make sure it mates well is my existing wet end.
Click to expand...
Unlike other VSP pump and motors, the 1.65 version will still need a time clock to turn it on at your required run time. They have a built-in timer but no clock. When they sense voltage the timer (a 24hr. cycle) begins. Turn it on at 12:00AM and never stop the power the cycle will continue with your programmed run speeds and times, cycle off and restart at 12:00AM the next day. Century has YouTube videos on how to use a mechanical timer (Intermatic) with these motors, straightforward. I believe the digital inputs that your solar controller will will provide will still override programming and work the way you would like.
 

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