Intellicenter, valve actuator, filter, - trying to figure out what models to buy

[setsailsoon]

Good choices! I did the i8ps for expansion. Main difference is that it has 3 additional high voltage relays. My router was in range w no problem. Check before you add range extenders...they can be a pain. If you have a range problem consider relocating the router or hard wiring w cat 5.

 

[Goshdurnit]

Good choices! I did the i8ps for expansion. Main difference is that it has 3 additional high voltage relays. My router was in range w no problem. Check before you add range extenders...they can be a pain. If you have a range problem consider relocating the router or hard wiring w cat 5.

Thanks! so reading some more details, the i5ps has "1 filter pump relay circuit plus 4 additional aux relay circuits" whereas the i8PS has 3 additional. Right now, I'd be controlling the pump, Mastertemp 400 heater, pool lights, and dolphin robot. If i'm doing the math right, I'd have room for 1 additional circuit, whereas if i got the i8 i'd have room for 4 more? am I correct in assuming the valve actuators are not used by the relay circuits?

Not sure I actually need 4 more, (might add additional lighting by the pool), but not sure if there's anything else I might want in the future... what are other typical circuits for?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Gosh,

IntelliFlo pumps do not use an Aux relay.

Heaters do not need a high voltage relay.

You need an Aux relay for each light, or group of lights you want to individually control. How many lights will you have that you want to be different colors at the same time?

Dolphin needs a relay

Pad light needs a relay

landscape light would need a relay (if used)

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Goshdurnit]

Gosh,

IntelliFlo pumps do not use an Aux relay.

Heaters do not need a high voltage relay.

You need an Aux relay for each light, or group of lights you want to individually control. How many lights will you have that you want to be different colors at the same time?

Dolphin needs a relay

Pad light needs a relay

landscape light would need a relay (if used)

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks for the clarification, my math was off! I don't imagine there'd be that many lights - i mostly need a strip of landscape/planter lights around the pool. Doing that math, the i5 sounds like plenty, though I wonder if the $300-ish difference between the two makes the upgraded one worth it!

 

[setsailsoon]

Thanks for the clarification, my math was off! I don't imagine there'd be that many lights - i mostly need a strip of landscape/planter lights around the pool. Doing that math, the i5 sounds like plenty, though I wonder if the $300-ish difference between the two makes the upgraded one worth it!

Gosh,
That was exactly my thinking. I couldn't come up with all the ways to use the eight relays. But before long I added a saltwater generator and then lights and we started talking about water features. So I paid up for the 8 Channel.

On our next pool I will be looking into a Raspberry Pi control system. Out of the major manufacturers I think the intellicenter is significantly better than the competition. But you are still at the mercy of their server's reliability and their commitment to continue offering upgrades of the firmware to make use of all the hardware you buy with their system and fix glitches. Performance in this area has been very disappointing to me and I think others. So I am going to push myself into this Raspberry Pi architecture that will no doubt require a lot of help from experts on this forum. But if this does not work out for me I won't hesitate to go back and upgrade to an Intellicenter.

Chris

 

[Goshdurnit]

@setsailsoon a local pool co tried to charge me $5k for the i5PS + install (though not including running any electrical, which id need to contract separately)
I’m assuming that’s way high, yeah? If it retails for like 3k with the salt kit…

Would love to buy it and get it installed from someone on these forums who knows what they’re doing.

 

[setsailsoon]

@setsailsoon a local pool co tried to charge me $5k for the i5PS + install (though not including running any electrical, which id need to contract separately)
I’m assuming that’s way high, yeah? If it retails for like 3k with the salt kit…

Would love to buy it and get it installed from someone on these forums who knows what they’re doing.

Wow that's 70% markup on the unit alone. I'd check with other dealers. Total installed cost should be $5-6 K unless you need a lot of work for your supply. What powers the existing pump and what is the amperage of the sub panel? I think you have a couple options:

• Order from a 3rd party and install it yourself. Big drawback of this for me was DIY unfriendly warranty. You do get 6 months (check as this is always changing). I did my i8ps for a little over $2K this way pre covid of course. I notice Polytec is out of stock of everything. If it were me I'd find out when they expect supply and get on the waiting list. This is not something you want to buy on a low end Ebay or other pool site.
• Do the same as above but hire experienced techs as needed to help.
• Put together and specification and send requests for proposals to Pentair authorized dealers for a TIC job. You should be able to have this done at $5-6K not including extra wiring.

Make sure to check on license and permit requirements for any work you do. In most areas you can get an owner build permit. I have done two different automation installations and found them pretty easy but they are definitely for advanced DIYers that understand NEC code requirement for pools and very familiar with 240v ac panel wiring. You'll also need to configure the system and you can get plenty of help here at TFP. We have several bonafide experts here on this. Please do definitely get the pro you need if you need it. If you do you'll learn a lot the easy way.

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

[Goshdurnit]

Sooo I just went for it and ordered an i10PS from Polytec because it was all they had in stock. I’ll figure out the electrician situation and go from there. I need to run some thicker gauge wire- I’ve got 12 ga right now running from the breaker in a 3/4” conduit- the electrician said I should be able to run 10 ga and get 30 amp to the panel in the same buried conduit, but that’ll just be enough power for everything I’ve got planned. Trying to figure out what kind of breaker I need to get for the panel- 20/30 I think he said? He recommended I upgrade to a thicker gauge but then I’d need to trench etc, but it’s not necessary for now. Does this all sound like it makes sense to you all?

I also need to figure out where to mount the panel - I was thinking mounting it on the backside of the brick of the squared off equipment pad so that there’s unobstructed access, but there’s also the SWG that needs pvc water connections- and not sure if that can get mounted inside near the pump and just run electrical through the brick.

Thank you!

 

[setsailsoon]

Gosh,

A few photo's would help. It would also help our experts be more efficient with their time if you can please add a signature. Here's how. You've made a couple great choices with Polytec and Intellicenter and need some basic information to be able to answer your questions:

• How big is your pool?
• Pump(s)?
• Features?
• Main service panel location and distance to your pool sub panel?

You should think long term about the panel installation. What might you be adding in the future and anything else you might want to control like irrigation, landscaping lighting, features? You can probably manage with 40 amp service but I wouldn't go with less than 60 amps unless there are some service limitations. Most panels are located near the pool equipment skid. This makes wiring all the other equipment much easier. I'm sure you'll get a lot of replies from our experts but it would be good if they can start with this information.

Chris

 

[Goshdurnit]

Thanks @setsailsoon, signature added and pool photos attached!
It's roughly 125 ft from the breaker to the pool pad. It's 13k-ish gallon. We just installed a new Pentair 011056 VSF pump and new filter last week. There's one small waterfall feature you can see in the distance in the photo. Aside from that, we might want to add a little bit of low voltage landscape lighting to the back planters behind the pool in the future.

When we installed the new pump, we did a few tests to figure out what's currently wired where.
- The timer at the pool pump is wired to the master house breaker. It's not in use, and can be removed.
- The filter pump is wired to the same breaker that controls our house's washing machine and dryer.
- The (LED) pool lights are on their own breaker, and the dolphin robot is currently wired to that.
We have two manual switches by the pool- one is the shutoff for the pump and one is for the pool lights.
We have a 3/4" (I think) conduit running from the breaker to the equipment, and we think it's 12GA running to the pad currently.

Basically, all that existing wiring needs to go away and be wired from the i10PS subpanel. All the breakers are currently in use, so we'll need to shuffle some things around to get it all to fit, or even upgrade my breaker. I have an electrician coming tomorrow to see what it'd cost to run 10GA wire to get 30 amp to the equipment pad. I also need to see about what my options are for running 40 or 60amp service to the equipment pad- and if that means trenching my backyard and running new cable, maybe that's an option too. I've already gotten 2 (expensive) estimates and they generally suggested we could use the 3/4" conduit and try to run 10GA in there, but it might not be enough power.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Gosh,

Standing at your heater, and looking at your filter, I would mount the Automation just to the left of the filter. You'd have to put in a couple of posts and a plywood like a sign, and hang the panel there. Easy to connect the SWCG and pump.

If that black square tube structure is to cover your pad, then you could come up with a way to mount it to the tubing, in the same general area.

Thanks,

Jim R,

 

[Goshdurnit]

@Jimrahbe One electrician suggested maybe I could mount it on the other side of the cement brick so that there would be clear unobstructed access. See photo for annotation. I might need to turn off the sprinkler line back there, but that's probably okay, the plum tree is the only thing that really needs water back there and I could convert it to a drip line or something so it doesn't spray water at the panel directly

 

[Jimrahbe]

Gosh,

That would work, but it would be way too low for me. I'd want the controls at eye level. I like your position better than mine, just not the height off the ground.

That said, maybe it is because I "play" with my outside unit a lot because of what I do here at TFP, but it would be very uncomfortable for me to use it on my knees. You should not need to be inside the panel very often, but when you do, I suspect that you'd want to do it at eye level.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Goshdurnit]

Anyone have a recommendation for a “roof” like a little shingle for the top lip of the intellicenter, so that it can avoid the elements when it rains? I alternatively was thinking of a full plastic cover but I didn’t see any for sale, though they’re mentioned in the manual as rainproof 3R. edit: saw this one but no idea if it’s a good idea.

Also, the latest quote I got from an electrician suggests I do a main panel upgrade from 100 amp to 150 amp, ($3k+), chip some cement, trench, and run 6ga 125 ft for 60 amp service ($$$$, waiting on quote) to the i10PS. Unsure if all that is necessary, especially for the cost.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Gosh,

Not sure why you need 60 amps?? The only thing that needs any real current is the pump and it only needs that when it initial comes on. My whole system runs off of 30 amps, and that includes sump pump that runs 24/7. landscape lights, etc. I have a separate line for my standalone hot tub.

I have three EasyTouch systems. The one at my house is under the roof overhang and does not get wet. The other two are mounted right out in the open with no overhead protection at all. I see no difference between them. They are all 7 to 10 years old, and I see no water intrusion at all. These cabinets are designed to be mounted outside.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Goshdurnit]

Thanks @Jimrahbe - another electrician said “30 amps might just be barely enough, not including landscape lighting you might add in the future” … someone above in a message recommended 40 to 60 amp service, and everyone who looked at my breaker said “your main panel is full, we can swap things around to get you 30 amp but…”

it’s currently a 100 amp main house panel and he suggested that I “need” a 150 amp panel (if I upgrade the line that makes sense, but I think not if I’m running 30a?)

I don’t know who to believe at this point.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Gosh,

I suspect they are technically correct. But that is based on the worst-case scenario, which makes sense safety wise. In actual operation, your current draw will not get near 30 amps.

Another option would be to run a 60 amp service line to the pad and protect it with a 30 amp breaker in your main panel. This would mean you would not have to upgrade your main panel and there would be no safety issues. In the future, you could upgrade your main panel if needed, or wanted for other reasons.

I don't think anyone is lying to you, they are just telling you their side of the story.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[setsailsoon]

Gosh,

I suspect they are technically correct. But that is based on the worst-case scenario, which makes sense safety wise. In actual operation, your current draw will not get near 30 amps.

Another option would be to run a 60 amp service line to the pad and protect it with a 30 amp breaker in your main panel. This would mean you would not have to upgrade your main panel and there would be no safety issues. In the future, you could upgrade your main panel if needed, or wanted for other reasons.

I don't think anyone is lying to you, they are just telling you their side of the story.

Thanks,

Jim R.

I was the culprit Jim. I agree 30 will work and I'd prefer 40 just to have extra room for unplanned needs. 60 is what I'm installing in the new house and I agree it's overboard. But my pool mentality is like my boat used to be. I fly coach but my boat goes first class! Gosh, no intent to confuse you here. There's just a lot of personal preference on many pool choices.

Chris

 

[Jimrahbe]

Chris,

If you have to run a new line anyway, I see no reason not to go with 60 amp or even 125-amp line. To me it makes sense to install a line the delivers more than you will ever need.

But if you already have a 30-amp line to the pad, and your only option to have more than 30 amps, is to upgrade your whole house breaker box, then it makes more sense to me to use what is currently available.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Goshdurnit]

Thanks Chris & Jim- this makes a lot of sense! My electrician is going to get me pricing to run #8 GA wire for 40 amp service going to the current panel (will need a new breaker swap), via the existing 3/4” conduit, (without having to trench or chip out the cement) if he can pull the line through.

To clarify- what exists in the 125 ft conduit run today is 12GA, so not currently 30A.

Seems like the best of both worlds! Fingers crossed the estimate $ comes up reasonable!