New Pool Owner Building a New Pool

[Ben_C]

Hi all,
I'm brand new to the forum and brand new to pools. Our family is building a 20'x40' in ground gunite pool (3'6" to 9' deep) and 8'x8' hot tub in our yard near SLC, UT. There will be a 5'x20' 'mom shelf' in the shallow end, and a 4' high waterfall wall in the deep end for the teenagers to dive off of (spanning the full 20' width at the deep end). We selected an experienced pool builder, and hope to break ground in the next few weeks.

Our builder has selected parts from Hayward (because Pentair takes a lot longer to ship, and 'since covid the equipment quality has been going down hill'). Should I have any concerns about selecting Hayward parts vs Pentair?
The selected parts are:
(2x) #SP32950VSP: TriStar VS 950
(1x) #HCP3020VSP: VSP with 3" unions, 3.0 HP
(1x) #HLBPLUS4W: OmniPL Smart Pool and Spa Control with TCELL940
(1x) #C4030: 425 sqft Swim Clear Cartridge
(1x) #HDF400 Universal HC Series - Dual Fuel 400K
(1x) HydraPure Advanced Oxidation Sanitization System
(6x) #LTBUY11300: UCL 300W Wall Mount Transformer
(3x) #GVA-24: Valve Actuator, 24V, .75A
(valves TBD)
- auto fill system
- salt water chlorine generator
- no automated pH system ('if there's a glitch it can pump 5 gallons of acid and destroy the plaster')
- 2 surface skimmer
- 1 designated vacuum line
- 4 colored pool lights
- dual anti-entrapment main drains
- 30" concrete coping 2 swim out bench, trim tile on steps & benches, 6" perimeter tile
- pool deck will likely be pavers

Are there any parts I should push to add or change? I don't mind spending more now for better quality & durability in the years ahead.

I also need to figure out where to store all the equipment. We currently don't have any type of pool house on the property. Would it be reasonable to fit everything within the 4' high x 20' long waterfall wall on the deep end? Would it be hard to access the equipment for maintenance in that space? Would it be noisy near the pool with the equipment right there?

I'm excited to have found this community, and looking forward to learning from the best!

 

[PoolStored]

Hi!!!! Welcome to TFP. Lots of folks will come by and help!

HydraPure Advanced Oxidation Sanitization System

I would ditch this, you don't need it. You will have plenty of sanitation from your Salt system. It is a UV and ozonator It's generally not that useful for pools. Ozone can actually consume chlorine (oxidizing it to chlorate) so it doesn't always save on chlorine usage. Same is true for the UV. Usually in an outdoor pool exposed to sunlight, most of the chlorine usage is from breakdown from the UV in sunlight with much less lost due to organic demand in the pool -- unless the pool is very small. Some good reading:

UV Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Ozone Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[PoolStored]

Also the SWCG cell you have is a 40K gallon cell. We recommend that you get a cell that is 2x the size of your pool. I would recommend you double the size of your SWG system. There are folks here with more knowledge on how to build the right system. The 2X recommendation is to handle the demand of the pool.

Some helpful reading:

SWG Multiple Cells - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Ben_C]

Thank you PoolStored! I’ll take this into account. FYI here’s a view of our pool design. We’re breaking ground this week

 

[Ben_C]

We’re planning to put the equipment in a shed against the far fence - around 100ft from the hot tub. Will there be any problems running the pipes that far from the pumps to the hot tub?

 

[Foxer]

Hello fellow Utahn - I'm in SLC area as well!

Are you doing an auto cover? Those seem pretty common around here.

With a mom shelf/tanning ledge you might want to consider making the pool longer. It looks like you've got plenty of space. A friend of mine has a 20x40 pool with a 6' tanning ledge and his piece of advice to me was to make the pool longer. It makes his shallow end pretty small. You're probably only going to have about 12' of shallow end before it drops off. My pool is 22 x 46, also 9' deep, and it my shallow end is about 18' long.

Everyone is going to recommend a robot, which negates the need for a dedicated vacuum port. It probably doesn't matter a whole lot either way, but a robot is a good idea.

As for equipment I'm just an owner builder, so I can't really speak to quality of Hayward, but I got all my Pentair equipment over the last couple of months. It wasn't too hard to get it for the most part, although I did have to go through a couple of different dealers to get it all. Sounds like it might just be your builder being lazy. If you want Pentair equipment, it's reasonably easy to get - it just might mean more work for your builder to track it down.

 

[PoolStored]

@ajw22 or others may know more, but 3hp pump is pretty big, and likely will handle the distance. Others thoughts?

 

[Cena_sea]

That four foot wall is going to look impressive. We did two feet and kids jump off it all the time. My main question is how do they climb up? Will you have steps behind it? We did 18 inch to 24 and it can be tricky to step up. We have ledger stone and a six year old climbed up using the stone like a mini rock wall so I’d be worried at four feet kids would try the rock climbing too.

 

[ajw22]

@ajw22 or others may know more, but 3hp pump is pretty big, and likely will handle the distance. Others thoughts?

Horizontal distance does not cause a problem for pumps.

Vertical lift does.

Use 2.5" - 3" pipe for long runs and keep the run straight without lots of 90s.

 

[TKpoolOH]

Our builder has selected parts from Hayward (because Pentair takes a lot longer to ship, and 'since covid the equipment quality has been going down hill'). Should I have any concerns about selecting Hayward parts vs Pentair?

Does anyone know if this comment from the builder is legit? I can certainly understand one manufacturer may have longer shipping delays, but a marked decrease in quality during covid? Is there anyone who can vouch for this (I haven't seen any other comments like this)? Curious because I have all Pentair equipment going into my pool in a couple months.

 

[ajw22]

Does anyone know if this comment from the builder is legit? I can certainly understand one manufacturer may have longer shipping delays, but a marked decrease in quality during covid? Is there anyone who can vouch for this (I haven't seen any other comments like this)?

I have seen no evidence of a Pentair quality decrease.

In fact I speculate the Pentair shortages are because they do not want to compromise quality in rushing products out.

 

[kimkats]

auto fill system

Make sure to put in an overflow grate/pipe as well. Will come in handy during big rains.

dual anti-entrapment main drains

Look at these:
Wholesale Pool Equipment - Best Prices - FREE SHIPPING ON ALL ORDERS!
So pretty with the plaster matching and no toes stubbed or robot blocking

in the deep end for the teenagers to dive off

9'??? OH YEAH!!! Now we are talking!! @YippeeSkippy LOOK!!! She LOVES a deep pool!

Make sure the depth is WATER depth-from floor to the middle of the skimmer opening. Some do it from the floor to the coping causing you to lose several inches of water depth.

Kim

 

[Ben_C]

Hello fellow Utahn - I'm in SLC area as well!

Are you doing an auto cover? Those seem pretty common around here.

Thanks Foxer! I'd love to check out your pool design sometime

Yes, we'll be installing an auto cover. Figuring out the details now to learn how we can install the auto cover box under or in front of the waterfall wall. If anyone has experience or thoughts about fitting in the auto cover I'd love to hear about it!

 

[Foxer]

Here’s a good view of how much room the cover will need. Cover box details

Essentially you’re going to need 14” behind the bond beam, plus another 6” for gunite (if you’re doing a gunite box). Your waterfall wall is going to be at least 26” behind the bond beam, then you’d have to have it extend over to the water. I think it’ll be difficult to have a wall along the whole deep end without some serious engineering. Plus you still need to allow access to the motor.

 

[Ben_C]

Make sure to put in an overflow grate/pipe as well. Will come in handy during big rains.

@kimkats are you talking about an overflow grate around the perimeter of the pool? To keep water from flooding around the pool during big rains? Do you have any pictures or links to help visualize it?

Look at these:
Wholesale Pool Equipment - Best Prices - FREE SHIPPING ON ALL ORDERS!
So pretty with the plaster matching and no toes stubbed or robot blocking

Is this in place of just a set of standard drains on the bottom of the pool? What benefits does it offer over other options?

I have a lot to learn ... thanks for the advice!

 

[Ben_C]

Here’s a good view of how much room the cover will need. Cover box details

Essentially you’re going to need 14” behind the bond beam, plus another 6” for gunite (if you’re doing a gunite box). Your waterfall wall is going to be at least 26” behind the bond beam, then you’d have to have it extend over to the water. I think it’ll be difficult to have a wall along the whole deep end without some serious engineering. Plus you still need to allow access to the motor.

Yeah I think you're right
We may have to put the cover box in the shallow end instead.
Is it possible to locate the cover box behind the waterfall wall?? Essentially adding another couple feet to the length of the cover, and running it underneath the wall?

If the box goes in the shallow end, would it feel awkward stepping on the coping pieces that cover the box as kids are getting in and out of the pool in that area? Do they feel loose when you step on them, or is it very similar to the feel of the concrete & pavers?

 

[Foxer]

On my own cover we’re doing a walk-on lid with the same coping as the rest of the pool. The cover doesn’t fully retract, so I think it would make it awkward to have on the shallow end. You’d have to step on the cover/lowered bond beam.

I couldn’t find a great picture, but this kind of gives you an idea. You can see the cover isn’t fully retracted. You’ve got the lid, but still 8-10” of the cover sticking out.

 

[Foxer]

You could maybe do something like this?? But have stairs so you could jump off?


You also need to plan for any extra weight a wall will add, and make sure the engineer accounts for it. We wanted to have an option of adding a jump wall and it added a bunch more rebar to account for that. Maybe your builder is already doing that, but I’d double check.

 

[Ben_C]

This is great, thank you @Foxer!
Do you know if we can choose which side of the cover box contains the motor (that extends 2-3 feet beyond the edge of the pool)?

Our builder is planning to add extra rebar in that area, but I'll triple check with the new potential to have the wall straddle the corner as you showed.

 

[kimkats]

Here is a pic of one already in the pool. It is NOT a good example due to the fact it is too low. It should be right at the tippy top of the tile to allow as little water overflow as possible when swimming and such.

The pro side of the plaster filled main drain is it blends in to the rest of the pool AND it does not stick up as much so the cleaner does not get stuck on it.

Kim