I have no idea what I'm doing...

[proavia]

The round item you have labeled as IFCS is the water distribution valve for the infloor. I think the tan pump is for the infloor, but no idea why with the tan pump off and black pump on you see the infloor working as well.

There really shouldn't be any dirt in the water distribution valve. It is supposed to take clean filtered water and return it to the pool. Any dirt/debris eventually gets pushed by the popups to the main drains in the pool bottom and gets slowly sucked out of the pool.

How many drain covers are in the pool bottom?

 

[Chefwitchyherb]

I actually meant share your PoolMath logs from the app so they show here when anyone click on your profile picture. Click my pic and see.....

You really shuuldn't be turning on/off your circuit breakers to control your equipment. They are not meant to be used as on/off switches and will prematurely fail if you continue to use them that way. You can use the silver metal tab with the on/off printed on them. Just don't touch the screws behind that lever. There should be a plastic guard between the lever and the screws on both timers. My bet is one timer turns the tan pump on/off and the other may or may not turn the black VS pump on/off based on who wired the black pump.

That plastic guard cover looks like this:

Amazon.com: Intermatic Timer Motor Cover Plastic Insulator Pool Replacement Part 124T1952 : Patio, Lawn & Garden

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I don't subscribe to the PoolMath. I use the old fashioned website and keep track of logs on my phone.
I normally use the switches with the timer. But I removed the timer so I could run the pump 24/7 while SLAMing. The left one turns on the floor cleaner. The right one turns on the filter. They're labeled.

 

[Chefwitchyherb]

The round item you have labeled as IFCS is the water distribution valve for the infloor. I think the tan pump is for the infloor, but no idea why with the tan pump off and black pump on you see the infloor working as well.

When you say "tan pump", do you mean that large tan filter on the right? That does not run when the IFCS is running. The black Hayward runs when the IFCS is running. The IFCS will run by itself.

There really shouldn't be any dirt in the water distribution valve. It is supposed to take clean filtered water and return it to the pool. Any dirt/debris eventually gets pushed by the popups to the main drains in the pool bottom and gets slowly sucked out of the pool.

There wasn't dirt but debris.

How many drain covers are in the pool bottom?

One drain in the very center of the pool. I checked to see if it was clogged when we drained. It wasn't clogged. And it doesn't seem to be doing anything. The dirt just sits around it. There's debris floating in the pool constantly. Nothing seems like it's doing it's job. I empty the skimmer and leaf catcher daily. Everyday I come home and the bottom step is filthy as is the center of the pool where the drain is. This is what is irritating me.... Something isn't working.

 

[Dirk]

Gene, good catch on the missing guards. That's extremely dangerous as it's possible one or more combinations of those screws could be 240V, likely 30amps. That's potentially lethal.

Something to consider: put the money you might pay in getting that IFCS fixed into a robot cleaner instead, which would out-clean that IFCS even if it worked, on its best day, using a small fraction of the electricity the IFCS would. IFCS is a technology from a bygone era. Robot cleaners are state of the art. I've never had either, but many folks here go on and on about their robots, and recommend them all the time. I've never read a thread here where someone was bragging about their IFCS, or recommending one...

Gene (@proavia), if a magic genie offered you any cleaning system, what would you wish for? (You can't ask for more wishes.)

 

[proavia]

Pump - the tan one on the left and the black one next to it.
Filter - the tan big tank looking thing on the right.

IFCS water valve - that degris is most probably because it is hooked to the tan pump and the water that pump uses isn't run thru the filter.

Since you've been (wrongly) using the circuit breaker to turn both pumps on/off and you admit that you had no idea about what was in the small black panel with the "Hayward" on it, then you don't know what speed(s) the black Hayward pump is running. I suggest you look online for the manual for that black pump (the model and serial number should be visible on the pump) and read up on how to program the pump - speeds, runtimes, etc.

Are there any drain covers on the sidewalls of the pool.

Waiting to see pics of the interior pool walls - with all equipment off - so we can see what other suction and return lines you may have. Pics of the pool bottom too.

 

[proavia]

Gene, good catch on the missing guards. That's extremely dangerous as it's possible one or more combinations of those screws could be 240V, likely 30amps. That's potentially lethal.

Something to consider: put the money you might pay in getting that IFCS fixed into a robot cleaner instead, which would out-clean that IFCS even if it worked, on its best day, using a small fraction of the electricity the IFCS would. IFCS is a technology from a bygone era. Robot cleaners are state of the art. I've never had either, but many folks here go on and on about their robots, and recommend them all the time. I've never read a thread here where someone was bragging about their IFCS, or recommending one...

Gene (@proavia), if a magic genie offered you any cleaning system, what would you wish for? (You can't ask for more wishes.)

View attachment 393982

Yeah - better safe than sorry when it comes to electricity. The replacement cogers are cheap.

In post #13, I see a robot.

If it was the mid to late 1990's, I would choose an IFCS (like I did in 1999).
Today I would choose a robot (not a suction side or pressure side cleaner, a true robot).

 

[bertschb]

I've never read a thread here where someone was bragging about their IFCS, or recommending one...

Here ya go...

The IFCS system in my pool that was built last summer works fabulously running two hours a day at 2,600rpm. The pool is always spotless and I have no cords or unsightly objects roaming around in my pool or interfering with my pool cover. I love it not just because it's invisible and works with zero effort on my part but also because it has other benefits like mixing chemicals and keeping the pool water a constant temperature throughout the water column. I highly recommended the IFCS even though people with robots dislike them.

 

[wireform]

Bert
Glad to hear you like the IFCS but that still leaves room for manual brushing where as the robot cleans, climbs and scrubs for you too.

 

[bertschb]

...that still leaves room for manual brushing...

What's that? I don't brush anything.

 

[ajw22]

A new properly installed IFCS system seems to work as designed.

As an IFCS system ages and is not properly maintained it can become very problematic. It is a complex system to get running once it has a few problems.

 

[Dirk]

Yeah - better safe than sorry when it comes to electricity. The replacement cogers are cheap.

In post #13, I see a robot.

If it was the mid to late 1990's, I would choose an IFCS (like I did in 1999).
Today I would choose a robot (not a suction side or pressure side cleaner, a true robot).

Gene: Ah, I missed that!

Chef: Then why are you running the IFCS?! And thinking about fixing it?!?

All: Thanks for weighing in about IFCS vs robot. I love my suction-side vac, and wouldn't trade it for either IFCS or robot. Ha, I guess we love our kids, and think they're the best, no matter how they behave!

 

[Dirk]

Did you all figure out all the pipes and valves yet? FWIW, I was just reading a thread that had a picture of an IFCS. Seems to have a very similar set of "mystery pipes."

How to clean pump basket without blowing air through the system...

When my PB showed me how to clean out the Leaf Vac and pump baskets shown below, he didn't do anything other than remove the lids, clear out the debris, replace the lids and turn on the pump. When he did this, I don't remember seeing much air being pushed into the pool but when I do the same...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Chefwitchyherb]

Gene, good catch on the missing guards. That's extremely dangerous as it's possible one or more combinations of those screws could be 240V, likely 30amps. That's potentially lethal.

Missing guards being lethal? What are you talking about?? The timer?

Something to consider: put the money you might pay in getting that IFCS fixed into a robot cleaner instead, which would out-clean that IFCS even if it worked, on its best day, using a small fraction of the electricity the IFCS would. IFCS is a technology from a bygone era. Robot cleaners are state of the art. I've never had either, but many folks here go on and on about their robots, and recommend them all the time. I've never read a thread here where someone was bragging about their IFCS, or recommending one...

Gene (@proavia), if a magic genie offered you any cleaning system, what would you wish for? (You can't ask for more wishes.)

View attachment 393982

See, I'm one step ahead of you. I bought a robotic vacuum last year, for the exact reason of the IFCS not cleaning...The robotic vacuum is a Nautilis Dolphin. I have the fine mesh filter for the basket inside the robot.. On Monday, I vacuumed that pool FOUR TIMES and it's STILL dirty!!!!! Il

 

[Chefwitchyherb]

Gene: Ah, I missed that!

Chef: Then why are you running the IFCS?! And thinking about fixing it?!?

All: Thanks for weighing in about IFCS vs robot. I love my suction-side vac, and wouldn't trade it for either IFCS or robot. Ha, I guess we love our kids, and think they're the best, no matter how they behave!

See my prior response about the robot running four times in one day and my pool still being dirty. Maybe I just bought a crappy vacuum???

 

[Dirk]

I can't speak to your robot's effectiveness. Other robot owners can help you with that. If I may... I suggest you focus on the SLAM, and forget about the IFCS for now (or forever). Don't turn it on. If anything, it's just muckying up your water by spraying the particles out into solution (into your water, not your drain) where your robot can't get at them. Run the SLAM, run the robot. Keep the bottom clean. Keep your filter clean. That's it.

Regarding the guards that Gene was referring to: Compare the image below to your timers. See the black surface behind the on-off switches? Those are the guards that keep your fingers from accidentally touching the screws that carry all the volts/amps. Order them TODAY. Install them ASAP. If you're not 100% comfortable installing them, then get a professional to do it (pool guy or electrician). Like I said, it is very likely that there is 240V lurking around those screws, and if your finger is on the on-off switch and slips and touches the wrong screw, you're going to get electrocuted.

Hint: you'd want ALL the breakers turned off in that panel, as well as the breaker in your house's main panel that feeds this sub panel to be off, BEFORE YOU INSTALL THE GUARDS. If you don't know EXACTLY what I'm talking about, don't install the guards yourself. Hire a pro to do it.

With both timers on, and the scheduling tabs removed, your timers aren't doing anything anyway. Leave this box alone (unless it is to install the guards). Focus on the SLAM. The controller mounted on the black pump is all you need to control things for now.

 

[Chefwitchyherb]

Pump - the tan one on the left and the black one next to it.
Filter - the tan big tank looking thing on the right.

IFCS water valve - that degris is most probably because it is hooked to the tan pump and the water that pump uses isn't run thru the filter.

Since you've been (wrongly) using the circuit breaker to turn both pumps on/off and you admit that you had no idea about what was in the small black panel with the "Hayward" on it, then you don't know what speed(s) the black Hayward pump is running.

We have already established I have (wrongly) been turning the pool equipment on and off.

I suggest you look online for the manual for that black pump (the model and serial number should be visible on the pump) and read up on how to program the pump - speeds, runtimes, etc.

I already mentioned I'm capable of figuring out how to operate the Hayward since it has a computer. I'm pretty tech savvy.

Are there any drain covers on the sidewalls of the pool.

No drain covers. There is a center drain and a skimmer. That's it.

Waiting to see pics of the interior pool walls - with all equipment off - so we can see what other suction and return lines you may have. Pics of the pool bottom too.

I can't speak to your robot's effectiveness. Other robot owners can help you with that. If I may... I suggest you focus on the SLAM, and forget about the IFCS for now (or forever). Don't turn it on. If anything, it's just muckying up your water by spraying the particles out into solution (into your water, not your drain) where your robot can't get at them. Run the SLAM, run the robot. Keep the bottom clean. Keep your filter clean. That's it.

Regarding the guards that Gene was referring to: Compare the image below to your timers. See the black surface behind the on-off switches? Those are the guards, that keep your fingers from accidentally touching the screws that carry all the volts/amps. Order them TODAY. Install them ASAP. If you're not 100% comfortable installing them, then get a professional to do it (pool guy or electrician). Like I said, it is very likely that there is 240V lurking around those screws, and if your finger is on the on-off switch and slips and touches the wrong screw, you're going to get electrocuted.

With both timers on, and the scheduling tabs removed, your timers aren't doing anything anyway. Leave this box alone (unless it is to install the guards). Focus on the SLAM. The controller mounted on the black pump is all you need to control things for now.

View attachment 394091

OMG!!!!!! ok yes.. definitely having the hubs correct this problem ASAP! And yes I think you're right about the IFCS....... I think it may be spitting dirt back into the pool....

 

[Dirk]

Please re-read the post you just replied to. I edited it a few times while you were replying. Thx!

 

[Chefwitchyherb]

I can't speak to your robot's effectiveness. Other robot owners can help you with that. If I may... I suggest you focus on the SLAM, and forget about the IFCS for now (or forever). Don't turn it on. If anything, it's just muckying up your water by spraying the particles out into solution (into your water, not your drain) where your robot can't get at them. Run the SLAM, run the robot. Keep the bottom clean. Keep your filter clean. That's it.

Regarding the guards that Gene was referring to: Compare the image below to your timers. See the black surface behind the on-off switches? Those are the guards that keep your fingers from accidentally touching the screws that carry all the volts/amps. Order them TODAY. Install them ASAP. If you're not 100% comfortable installing them, then get a professional to do it (pool guy or electrician). Like I said, it is very likely that there is 240V lurking around those screws, and if your finger is on the on-off switch and slips and touches the wrong screw, you're going to get electrocuted.

Hint: you'd want ALL the breakers turned off in that panel, as well as the breaker in your house's main panel that feeds this sub panel to be off, BEFORE YOU INSTALL THE GUARDS. If you don't know EXACTLY what I'm talking about, don't install the guards yourself. Hire a pro to do it.

With both timers on, and the scheduling tabs removed, your timers aren't doing anything anyway. Leave this box alone (unless it is to install the guards). Focus on the SLAM. The controller mounted on the black pump is all you need to control things for now.

View attachment 394091

Another thing... Here in Arizona, electricity can be pretty expensive during the summer. Depending on which plan a person is set up with their electric company, I do need to change this timer a couple times a year. In addition to when I SLAM the pool... I can't have the timer set to 9am-5pm. So I removed the little screws for the timer so it allowed me to run the filter/pump 24/7....
Also just to vent, there's more and more chips of plaster coming off the pool I am not trying to pay for this pool to be resurfaced.... We did that at our old house and ten years ago it was $15k. I don't even wanna know what it is now..

 

[Dirk]

You won't be using those two timers ever again. Period. All the pump scheduling is done with the controller that is mounted on the black pump. Those two timers ran a "dumb" filter pump, which no longer exists, and the IFCS, which no longer works. One more time:
- Leave the timer box alone
- Focus on the SLAM

You're introducing multiple issues, now across multiple threads, that is confusing not only all the people that are trying to help you, but yourself as well. A little tough love. If you continue to do so, you're going to find less and less folks weighing in to help you. They just won't be able to keep up.

Once you get your water clear (from the SLAM), we'll help you balance the chemistry. And THEN we can start in on some of the other things on your mind. How's that sound?

 

[Chefwitchyherb]

Please re-read the post you just replied to. I edited it a few times while you were replying. Thx!

I reread it. Thanks! Specifically what are they called so I can order from Amazon and install this weekend.
Believe it or not, I'm comfortable with electricity. I was able to install a couple new lights at our old house! And yes I shut the entire power for the entire house off before I did that