Dear folks, I bought the house with a nice pool, but as a first time pool owner, I had no idea what everything was supposed to be. It turned out the entire in-floor cleaning system was not functioning. 0 out of the 15 pop up head works. 1 was missing. I bought a new one, but still couldn’t figure out why none of them works. The filter was cleaned, baskets emptied, caretaker opened, cleaned and checked, new o-rings were installed, no visible leak. I even dug out the dirt around the 5-valve and checked all 5 pipes. No leak at all. The only place I can’t check is under concrete plates. The pressure of the filter is relatively high, 20-25 psi, when returning to SPA, 20 psi, returning to pool pop up, 25 psi. Check valves all work. I feel the last chance is all the 5 pipes are clogged, but would it be possible? Hope to hear some suggestions from kind folks here. Thanks.
Polaris Caretaker 5 valve pop up heads not working
- Thread starter Daviswoo
- Start date
Do you have a pressure gauge on the 5-valve housing? If so what does that read? Also, need to know what type of filter you have and what type of pump. If it is a variable speed pump then also need to know what speed you are running it at to operate the in-floor system.
A high filter pressure could indicate it is dirty, thus restricting the flow. Do you know if it has been cleaned? If it is a DE filter, it may need to be backwashed.
It may be helpful to post a picture or 2 of your equipment pad equipment and also the Caretaker system.
A high filter pressure could indicate it is dirty, thus restricting the flow. Do you know if it has been cleaned? If it is a DE filter, it may need to be backwashed.
It may be helpful to post a picture or 2 of your equipment pad equipment and also the Caretaker system.
- Feb 6, 2015
- 6,342
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Did you remove and clean the dome screen in the water valve?
Link to installation and maintenance manual
Post a few pics of your equipment pad from different angles and also one of the water valve.
Link to installation and maintenance manual
Post a few pics of your equipment pad from different angles and also one of the water valve.
Thanks for your reply!
1, the 5-valve gauge is 5-25 psi, 5 when returns to SPA, 25 when returns to pool.
2, Pentair FNS 60 DE filter, Pentair Whisperflo High performance pump 1 HP.
3, Yes, I cleaned the filter thoroughly, though after cleaning the pressure went up 5 psi, instead of going down.
1, the 5-valve gauge is 5-25 psi, 5 when returns to SPA, 25 when returns to pool.
2, Pentair FNS 60 DE filter, Pentair Whisperflo High performance pump 1 HP.
3, Yes, I cleaned the filter thoroughly, though after cleaning the pressure went up 5 psi, instead of going down.
Attachments
Yes, I did clean the dome and inside, also replaced all o-rings. It was leaking before. Now no more leaking, but heads still not popping up.
Thanks for the pictures. Since you repaired the leak in the housing and it is no longer leaking, it can be assumed that you are getting water to the system and it appears you have sufficient pressure of 20-25psi to operate the IFCS (in-floor cleaning system). You have a single speed pump so that puts out maximum Hp.
Your DE filter operating pressure of 20-22psi is normal with a single speed pump. That is what mine was prior to installing a Variable Speed pump. When you backwash, ensure you add the right amount of DE to coat the grids. Do not run the pump without DE on the grids as that can cause damage over the long term.
When you are in Spa Mode, your pressure in the DE filter should rise a little as you have more restriction (small jets of the spa) that increases back pressure on the system.
I do not have an IFCS but I do know there is a gear that rotates the disk to open up each of the 5 ports in a sequential manner. Since you are getting flow and pressure to the housing but none to any of the 5 returns, that tells me the issue is in the housing or possibly before the housing. Since you do not know how long the IFCS has not been operational, we cannot rule out blockage in each of the pipes or in each nozzle but as you indicate, that would be extreme.
When you had the one nozzle that was missing, was any flow coming out of that? Since it would have no back pressure, it would be easier to flow.
Maybe post a complete picture of your equipment pad from different angles so we can see the suction and return lines, pump, etc.
Thank you so much for your help. I took the pictures yesterday at night. I just took more with good lighting.
I actually opened the housing and checked all the gears and they all rotate normally. However, as you said jet is small and should result in higher psi, I completely agree, but in my case the jet has lower psi, pool is higher. Would this indicate blockage in all pipes? I removed and checked all pop up heads and they all can go up and down normally. I used various tools to clear the clog, plunger, pressure plunger, pressure washer, connect the skimmer pipe directly to the holes to maximize flow, I do see some debris came out of the pipes, like cloud, but none of them solved the problem. There was a little bit flow came out of the heads, but far from enough to pop up the head.
I actually opened the housing and checked all the gears and they all rotate normally. However, as you said jet is small and should result in higher psi, I completely agree, but in my case the jet has lower psi, pool is higher. Would this indicate blockage in all pipes? I removed and checked all pop up heads and they all can go up and down normally. I used various tools to clear the clog, plunger, pressure plunger, pressure washer, connect the skimmer pipe directly to the holes to maximize flow, I do see some debris came out of the pipes, like cloud, but none of them solved the problem. There was a little bit flow came out of the heads, but far from enough to pop up the head.
Attachments
Thanks for the additional pictures. I need to see a picture of your pool as I am a little confused.
Can you bypass the IFCS and only flow back to the pool via the return jets on the walls (assuming there are some on the walls)?
When you see a pressure of 20-25psi, there must be some flow into the pool or spa, correct? Where is that flow exiting from?
Also, you appear to have a check valve (that black item) after the pump but before the filter. Have you disassembled that?
Have you relieved air from your filter by turning the air relief valve? Water should stream out of that hole facing forward. It is just a 1/4 turn to open and then back to close it.
In your original post above, you indicate 2 separate return paths - one to the pool via the IFCS and another to the spa. However, When I look at your picture of the pump, you only have one suction line. Also, it only shows one return line coming from the heater going through to the inline Chlorinator then into the ground. I assume that pipe is leading to the IFCS 5 valve device. So how do you switch flow going between the spa and the pool? How do you measure that pressure difference? Is it on the filter pressure gauge?
Can you bypass the IFCS and only flow back to the pool via the return jets on the walls (assuming there are some on the walls)?
When you see a pressure of 20-25psi, there must be some flow into the pool or spa, correct? Where is that flow exiting from?
Also, you appear to have a check valve (that black item) after the pump but before the filter. Have you disassembled that?
Have you relieved air from your filter by turning the air relief valve? Water should stream out of that hole facing forward. It is just a 1/4 turn to open and then back to close it.
I have two other valves to control the flow near the skimmer. Somehow that picture was not accepted by the server. The valve on the right is return switch between pool and spa, left is suction from skimmer or bottom drain. Now they are both on pool side. The three switches are heater, pump, and lights.
Right when returning to pool, small flow comes to spa, vice versa. When it’s on spa, I have 5 psi on 5-valve.
Yes, I dissembled the check valve to make sure it works. It works perfectly.
Yes, I relieved air from filter every time after backwashing, or emptying the pump basket.
Today I just bought an auger to unclog the pipes. I’ve done the first pipe which has 4 pop up heads on the line on the shallow end, some debris came out, and saw a little flow after it, but it stopped flowing in a few minutes.
Quite frustrating!!
Right when returning to pool, small flow comes to spa, vice versa. When it’s on spa, I have 5 psi on 5-valve.
Yes, I dissembled the check valve to make sure it works. It works perfectly.
Yes, I relieved air from filter every time after backwashing, or emptying the pump basket.
Today I just bought an auger to unclog the pipes. I’ve done the first pipe which has 4 pop up heads on the line on the shallow end, some debris came out, and saw a little flow after it, but it stopped flowing in a few minutes.
Quite frustrating!!
Attachments
Thanks. It helps explain the flow. So the way the valves are set in the picture, the left side is suction and currently suction is from the Spa and the pool suction is off. On the right side, the flow is back to the pool (flow to spa is off), however you have that small diameter pipe that connects the pool return to also flow to the spa for spillover effect.
Is your cleaner a suction side cleaner? I notice you have a leaf catcher near the wall. Where does that suction pipe connect? Does it go to the skimmer suction? Very bottom of picture is a skimmer cover. Just want to verify that there is not another suction pipe somewhere.
Where does the pool return shown in the picture connect to the IFCS? In your earlier picture of the 5-valve housing, it appears to be off by itself but the return pipe near the skimmer must connect to it. Is there any valve between the return pipe near the skimmer and the 5-valve housing? Or can you bypass the 5-valve housing?
The auger is a good idea. I sympathize with your frustration.
Is your cleaner a suction side cleaner? I notice you have a leaf catcher near the wall. Where does that suction pipe connect? Does it go to the skimmer suction? Very bottom of picture is a skimmer cover. Just want to verify that there is not another suction pipe somewhere.
Where does the pool return shown in the picture connect to the IFCS? In your earlier picture of the 5-valve housing, it appears to be off by itself but the return pipe near the skimmer must connect to it. Is there any valve between the return pipe near the skimmer and the 5-valve housing? Or can you bypass the 5-valve housing?
The auger is a good idea. I sympathize with your frustration.
Yes, when suction is from the pool, it’s the skimmer. I have a cleaner connected to the skimmer suction as the in-floor is not working. The return valve pool side goes to the IFCS. And it does have a small diameter pipe to send some spillover to SPA. If I switch it to SPA, it will bypass the IFCS. The two valves are all I can see. No other valves near the 5-valve or filter. I noticed the pool bottom drain seems not working as well. As the suction valve switches from pool to spa, the pool side is always the skimmer, I suppose there would be a way to drain from pool? Does this mean there might be another valve hidden somewhere? I wasn’t able to find anywhere.
The left set of pipes are suction. The left pipe states Pool and the Right pipe states Spa. Where is the skimmer suction? Is it combined with your pool main drain? Sometimes the pool main drain is connected to the skimmer. You can verify this if you remove the basket from your skimmer and you should see 2 holes, or there could be a sliding valve over one of them. If the main drain is connected to the skimmer, then if the water level drops below the skimmer intake, the suction will increase from the main drain to prevent the pump from sucking air. So you can still drain your pool via that method if that is how it set up.
Your comment - "As the suction valve switches from pool to spa, the pool side is always the skimmer," This would justify the set up mentioned above. You would never feel much suction from the main drain
Do you have a main drain in your spa? I see 1 main drain cover in your pool picture. Does it have 2 covers or just the 1? Depending on the age of your pool, it would be set up to have suction from a main drain from your spa, main drain from your pool and skimmer from your pool. It only shows 2 suction pipes marked Pool and Spa. Is that correct? So the likely scenario is that the main drain of the pool is connected to the skimmer. And you have a main drain in the spa (cannot see it in the picture due to angle of the shot)
Hope this helps.
Your comment - "As the suction valve switches from pool to spa, the pool side is always the skimmer," This would justify the set up mentioned above. You would never feel much suction from the main drain
Do you have a main drain in your spa? I see 1 main drain cover in your pool picture. Does it have 2 covers or just the 1? Depending on the age of your pool, it would be set up to have suction from a main drain from your spa, main drain from your pool and skimmer from your pool. It only shows 2 suction pipes marked Pool and Spa. Is that correct? So the likely scenario is that the main drain of the pool is connected to the skimmer. And you have a main drain in the spa (cannot see it in the picture due to angle of the shot)
Hope this helps.
Thank you so much. Yes, 2 drains in the spa and 1 in the deepest end of the pool. 2 holes in the skimmer. When water level drop below the skimmer, it sucks a lot of air into it. What should I do to the 2 skimmer holes to allow the pool drain to work? Thank you so much for your help!
Well, if the main drain was connected to the skimmer, it should not draw air into it.
Also, you did not mention if both holes are open. Furthermore, some skimmers have a saucer-shaped item (diverter) in the bottom of the skimmer designed to help adjust the suction flow between the skimmer and main drain. Please refer to this article which shows some pictures as well as describes it. Since you only have 2 suction lines, one is the spa drain and the other is the pool skimmer, and since you have a pool main drain, then the pool drain must be connected to that skimmer line (unless it was blocked off).
Inground Pool Skimmer Plumbing Diagrams
How pool skimmer pipes are connected underground. Common, and old style methods of plumbing pool skimmers on inground pools.
blog.intheswim.com
Go down to the section called Combination Skimmers. You may want to consider running your auger down both of the holes to see how far you can get. PS - know this is not your primary concern but good to figure this out as well as why the IFCS is not flowing properly.
BTW - do you have any returns on the sides of your pool or are all the return flow via the floor nozzles?
Just saw this other thread with similar issue as you have with IFCS. Please read.
www.troublefreepool.com
Caretaker pressure issues
I have a pressure issue with my in-floor cleaning system that I can’t seem to solve. I have a Pentair cartridge system and a Caretaker 5 port in-floor cleaning system. When I have the Caretaker system engaged I’m getting 8 PSI at the water valve assembly while I’m getting around 30 PSI at the...
www.troublefreepool.com
A discussion on main drains and connection to skimmer
www.troublefreepool.com
Main Drain Recommendation
I want to start ordering equipment so I don't run into any issues as I start construction. Does anyone have recommendations for main drains? I've been looking at a few stores online and there seems to be dozens/hundreds of options. Preferably I'd like something that a robot cleaner isn't going...
www.troublefreepool.com
- Feb 6, 2015
- 6,342
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
You mentioned that you cleaned the dome and inside. I am still unclear if you found and cleaned the strainer. Many times it get stuck in the inlet pipe and gets overlooked.
See if anything in this post helps you out....
www.troublefreepool.com
See if anything in this post helps you out....
Caretaker pressure issues
I have a pressure issue with my in-floor cleaning system that I can’t seem to solve. I have a Pentair cartridge system and a Caretaker 5 port in-floor cleaning system. When I have the Caretaker system engaged I’m getting 8 PSI at the water valve assembly while I’m getting around 30 PSI at the...
www.troublefreepool.com
The two holes in skimmer are not covered. I guess the reason it sucked air was because I have a short pipe connecting the suction hole to the cleaner’s pipe, thus it raises the suction hole up and couldn’t suck from the main pool drain. I removed that short pipe and now the pool drain works!
I don’t have wall jets in pool, only the IFCS.
Tomorrow morning, I plan to test the outflow of the caretaker 5-valve to make sure the flow that comes out of the 5-valve have enough pressure, as the gauge only indicates the inside pressure not outflow pressure. If the outflow pressure looks normal, I’ll run auger into all 5 pipes to make sure they could pass freely. If the 5-valve outflow is weak, probably need to buy the rebuilt kit.
Look forward to hearing your feedback!
Thank you so much!
I don’t have wall jets in pool, only the IFCS.
Tomorrow morning, I plan to test the outflow of the caretaker 5-valve to make sure the flow that comes out of the 5-valve have enough pressure, as the gauge only indicates the inside pressure not outflow pressure. If the outflow pressure looks normal, I’ll run auger into all 5 pipes to make sure they could pass freely. If the 5-valve outflow is weak, probably need to buy the rebuilt kit.
Look forward to hearing your feedback!
Thank you so much!
Thanks! Yes, I cleaned the strainer.Just saw this other thread with similar issue as you have with IFCS. Please read.
Caretaker pressure issues
I have a pressure issue with my in-floor cleaning system that I can’t seem to solve. I have a Pentair cartridge system and a Caretaker 5 port in-floor cleaning system. When I have the Caretaker system engaged I’m getting 8 PSI at the water valve assembly while I’m getting around 30 PSI at the...
Thank you so much for your help! Yes, I cleaned the strainer.You mentioned that you cleaned the dome and inside. I am still unclear if you found and cleaned the strainer. Many times it get stuck in the inlet pipe and gets overlooked.
See if anything in this post helps you out....
Caretaker pressure issues
I have a pressure issue with my in-floor cleaning system that I can’t seem to solve. I have a Pentair cartridge system and a Caretaker 5 port in-floor cleaning system. When I have the Caretaker system engaged I’m getting 8 PSI at the water valve assembly while I’m getting around 30 PSI at the...