Filter, Pump, Plumbing Review.

[PoolStored]

So, for those that have followed, new pool owner. 31,000 Gallon in-ground. I was pool stored, now complete TFP convert. Chems are easy, less than 5 minutes a day. Now I turn to my filter and pump. Will replace/upgrade this fall if necessary. Also will re-plumb. Would like to get input.

FILTER/PUMP
Pool Store sold me Zeolite. It has worked well for me, but I'm going to convert back to sand (US Mystic White II), as I don't want to mess with re-charge etc. The Filter is a Pentair S7S50. Filter Area 2.4 Ft. Flow Rage Range 33-48 GPM. (See attached specs). Pump is a Pentair VS pump, 342001, Line 392 here: Pump DB. Also see attached specs. I usually run the pump at 1400 for 20 hours and 2200 for 4 hours when I chlorinate (Stenner Pump) on timer. I will likely reduce the amount of pump time when I have time to study more, but for now, it works and I don't mind the few $$. The focus is on the filter size and pump combo.

I have two skimmers. One is about 20' from equipment, 3 foot rise, one is 30' 3 foot rise. Two returns, one is 20', 5' rise, one is probably 80' with an 8' rise. All plumbing is 1 1/2" corrugated plastic, except for the pad area, all is smooth. (see picture). How do I figure out total dynamic head. I have no idea how to figure out Total Dynamic Head to figure out GPM/GPH from my setup.

Generally I've been happy with the setup, it has worked well. Pool is great no issues.

I also included a picture of the setup.

Here are my questions:
1) is this sand filter big enough, or should I get something larger?
2) is this pump sufficient? What are the right speeds to run the pump with this filter?
3) I had a UV filter, which I tore out, that is the top and bottom valve, currently using the bypass they put in. I also tore out Puckinator (you can see black line from input to output that I just removed chlorinator and connected input to output. I also put it line for Stenner pump you can see on return elbow (which I will replace with 1/2" NPT "T." I'm going to tear all that out and replace. Any recommendations on where to put unions or how to re-plumb efficiently? Will keep the bypass on the heater. Other union recommendations?
4) Any other recommendations?

Thanks TFP for all the help!

 

[Newdude]

Hey PS !!! Your pump and filter while not new, or the largest, are still the Cadillacs of their peers.

Total head and GPM are mostly moot points in a pool without water features. If your returns move water at little filter PSI, all is great.

By your own say so, the pool is great and easy to care for. I'd let it ride and go big when the time comes. Seeing how you have Cadillacs, it probably won't be anytime soon.

Now. If you just want and excuse to upgrade, well hey, I can respect that too. Tell Mrs Stored that Newdude on the internet, a well known pool master (its a lie but she won't know. Shhhh!!) said that you need the Pentair 3HP 011028 pump and either the SM8500 or CNC520 Pentair cartridges or the pool will always be green. (Another lie, but bro-code. I got you. get your upgrade on )

Now. NOW. If you really want something that you really NEED...... Pentair IC60 SWG and keep the pump and filter.

 

[PoolStored]

Hey PS !!! Your pump and filter while not new, or the largest, are still the Cadillacs of their peers.

Total head and GPM are mostly moot points in a pool without water features. If your returns move water at little filter PSI, all is great.

By your own say so, the pool is great and easy to care for. I'd let it ride and go big when the time comes. Seeing how you have Cadillacs, it probably won't be anytime soon.

Now. If you just want and excuse to upgrade, well hey, I can respect that too. Tell Mrs Stored that Newdude on the internet, a well known pool master (its a lie but she won't know. Shhhh!!) said that you need the Pentair 3HP 011028 pump and either the SM8500 or CNC520 Pentair cartridges or the pool will always be green. (Another lie, but bro-code. I got you. get your upgrade on )

ND...have you been drinking tonight?

 

[PoolStored]

ND...have you been drinking tonight?

Based on your reaction, I'm assuming yes.........

 

[PoolStored]

Now. NOW. If you really want something that you really NEED...... Pentair IC60 SWG and keep the pump and filter.

I thought about it, but I'm good with hauling a bit of LC, to not mess with adjusting the SWG output. There is a thread, I can't find again, where everyone was pro-SWG, but detractor talked about tweaking SWG. I now now my pool well enough, that if I were to go away, my Alexa, smartplug, Stenner, and tank will take care of me.

 

[Newdude]

No I haven't but I appreciate the joke.

Fine. Here is the boring answer.
Your equipment is fine. It works per your own say so. The VS pump uses only a little electric and any savings going to a slightly more efficient / bigger pump will take forever to pay for itself. You don't need any more flow or GPM so you're only replacing for the sake of replacing. Hence my jokes about it.

Now the SWG part above I was dead serious about. You'd have to pry mine out of my cold dead hands and same goes for most of us.

 

[PoolStored]

No I haven't but I appreciate the joke.

Fine. Here is the boring answer.
Your equipment is fine. It works per your own say so. The VS pump uses only a little electric and any savings going to a slightly more efficient / bigger pump will take forever to pay for itself. You don't need any more flow or GPM so you're only replacing for the sake of replacing. Hence my jokes about it.

Now the SWG part above I was dead serious about. You'd have to pry mine out of my cold dead hands and same goes for most of us.

Gotcha. My usage is soooooo variable. I go from .5 to 2.5ppm daily. Depending on sun, cover, usage...that the stenner/alexa/plug just works. Test, set end time, forget it. Less than 5 mins a day. Even if I travel, with cover on, I'm .5 ppm per day. I can't justify the conversion. I have to find that thread.

 

[Newdude]

^^^^^^ all that is a perfect example. You have your pool dialed in awesomely. No need to mess with it. Going back to sand is a good thing. No need for fancy cleanings like that stuff (filter balls ?) you have to take out and wash in the clothes washer. Sand rinses off in place and is good as new.

Other than that, you're sitting pretty. The pad will be rather expensive to replumb, but it looks to be pretty efficient if you copy what's there. You'll want Hayward high temp unions on both sides of the pump, all MPV ports and the filter. You can probably reuse the heater unions. All of the valves get replaced with Jandy never lubes or Pentairs which is where it will get expensive now and for the foreseeable future.

 

[PoolStored]

The pad will be rather expensive to replumb, but it looks to be pretty efficient if you copy what's there. You'll want Hayward high temp unions on both sides of the pump, all MPV ports and the filter. You can probably reuse the heater unions. All of the valves get replaced with Jandy never lubes or Pentairs which is where it will get expensive now and for the foreseeable future.

Ok, slow down cowboy. I've been drinking * * (Ha Ha). I'll do the work, so I want to understand.
1) I should put unions (HHT) on both sides of the pump. (I'll look them up).
2) The MPV is the Multi-Port-Valve I suspect. Filter is obvious. Why have unions all over the place? Ease of maintenance?
3) Valves? What is wrong with these? Happy to upgrade, and I will, just have to study where I can cut and splice. What do you mean expensive for the foreseeable future? Constant replacement? Maintenance? Happy to do, but I think I have one shot at cut/splice with this setup before I will have to rip out and replace...not enough remaining PVC

 

[Newdude]

There is a thread, I can't find again, where everyone was pro-SWG, but detractor talked about tweaking SWG. I now now my pool well enough, that if I were to go away, my Alexa, smartplug, Stenner, and tank will take care of me.

99% of the problems are simply from user error. Folks don't understand what it can/can't do, or expect it to perform miracles in too short a runtime window. I ran 24/7 and only had to adjust the % of the cell once every 4-6 weeks. One click from 20% to 40% to 60% and then similar in reverse for the back half of the season. 5 or 6 clicks per season, one press at a time. I challange you to make it a season on 5 or 6 clicks. You think its easy now ? (but again, good on you that you know your system well)

Why have unions all over the place? Ease of maintenance?

So each big piece comes out easy for repair. You don't want to be doing it *and* repairing the pump because you have to cut the pump/MPV out right now.

Valves? What is wrong with these?

Ball valves break. Frequently and not long into their lives. The Jandys and Pentairs have replaceable guts like your MPV (you got it right. Multi port Valve)

What do you mean expensive for the foreseeable future?

Covid / supply shortages and crazy high pool builder demands going on. Everybody is out of stock and if any come in they fetch top dollar.

Happy to do, but I think I have one shot at cut/splice with this setup before I will have to rip out and replace...not enough remaining PVC

You'll pretty much just need to start at the fresh pipe in the ground and work it all new. Hopefully there is enough coming out of the cement floor to use.

 

[PoolStored]

99% of the problems are simply from user error. Folks don't understand what it can/can't do, or expect it to perform miracles in too short a runtime window. I ran 24/7 and only had to adjust the % of the cell once every 4-6 weeks. One click from 20% to 40% to 60% and then similar in reverse for the back half of the season. 5 or 6 clicks per season, one press at a time. I challange you to make it a season on 5 or 6 clicks. You think its easy now ? (but again, good on you that you know your system well)

I don’t understand. If my demand is so variable, won’t I have to change the run time daily?

 

[Newdude]

I don’t understand. If my demand is so variable, won’t I have to change the run time daily

Nope. You’ll run a tad hot on the lesser days. Totally safe and lots of wiggle room. I would target 10 and catch it most weeks approaching 15. Whoopsie. Slow down boy !!! And turn it off for a day or two.

But more often than not, storms, particularly hot days or get togethers would put me right back to slightly high.

 

[PoolStored]

Got it. How is that any different then than having stenner run for a fixed time and adjusting a few times a season? Seems to me just running to store to get LC.

 

[Newdude]

It’s exactly the same. Except the buying and transporting parts. Like you said, you don’t mind it. As long as you’re happy, we are happy too.

Your equipment works great. Your methods work great. Don’t tempt fate. She is not a *kind lady*, they say.

 

[PoolStored]

The pad will be rather expensive to replumb, but it looks to be pretty efficient if you copy what's there. You'll want Hayward high temp unions on both sides of the pump, all MPV ports and the filter. You can probably reuse the heater unions. All of the valves get replaced with Jandy never lubes or Pentairs which is where it will get expensive now and for the foreseeable future.

Let's start inbound.
The three Praher ball valves.
a) Took me a bit to figure out that the closest one is a suction line that was covered over with the liner. I have closed that one. when I redo, I will cap this threaded inbound with a cap. I believe they thought there was a leak, and I use a dolphin, so not needed. Cap will allow someone in the future to fix if they desire.
b) The other two inbound pipes from the skimmer, if you look closely, have a threaded fitting, which the first 1/2 of the Praher valve/union is threaded on, then the other side of the valve is also threaded into the other side.. I'm assuming they did this so they could replace the valve if one (or all) went bad. I am going to rebuild the section from the inbound threaded end to the pump. Jandy does not have a 1 1/2 " x 1 1/2" slip, so Imma gonna go with the Pentair. Is this the correct one? Amazon Pentair Valve My intent would be to put a female 1 1/2" threaded to Male slip on the threaded inbound where the first 1/2 of the praher is. Then, glue the valve to the slip. I would do this for both the skimmers. Then just repeat what is there, but stick a high temp union between them and the pump. Good?

Multiport.
a) I really don't want to futz with this. Seems ok and works. I know the union is not high temp, willing to take the risk.

Outbound. I will cut these behind and to the right of the filter. I'll keep the heater and bypass as is and just rebuild between with a 1/2 NPT "T" for the stenner injection.

Seems like the minimum fuss to fix a) having unions surrounding the pump other than the praher valves and b) gets rid of the eyesore UV, chlorinator injections and janky flex they put in at the top rear to make it work...

Thoughts?

 

[Newdude]

Is this the correct one? Amazon Pentair Valve

Yes.

Then just repeat what is there, but stick a high temp union between them and the pump. Good

Yes

Thoughts?

I just looked from my tablet now instead of my usual phone and it now looks to me that the front of the pump already is a union. And you have all the others already on all sides of the MPV. I don't know if the suction valves or their parts are still made, I don't recall seeing them in other threads. They also ain't broke.

Hard call PoolStored. Everything is costing an absolute premium right now. Even just waiting until next year could save you 50%+ and the eyesore (which I'm SURE irks you, I get it. I do. ) won't matter over the winter. Let's call in @cowboycasey for his thoughts.

 

[PoolStored]

I don't know if the suction valves or their parts are still made...

https://www.eztestpools.com/praher-1-5mpt-x-fpt-single-union-ball-valve-150-015/

The two from the skimmer are working, the other one that is not in use will not fully close. I could just replace the valves 1:1, cap the suction for vacuum and put union on inbound to pump.

Would at least replace 15+ year old ball valves with new and leave me no worse for wear, even if I had to replace later with no-lube.

 

[Newdude]

Ok great !! And I woke up at 3 AM with a musing, when all the good ones happen. Jandy doesn’t make the size you want, but you could adapt the pad to whatever size you wanted it to be when the time comes.

Under normal circumstances, folks come in wanting to make it 2 inches like it would make a difference in their head loss / pressure and we tell them that it won’t and they have no reason to. But in this instance, you’d have a reason to and it wouldn’t hurt anything.

 

[PoolStored]

@Newdude Soooooo, I bit the bullet and ordered a Circupool RJ-60. Had a bunch of leaves, was on top of it, but lost that TFP clear look. Min I got was 5ppm FC. Bit of haze. Realized that all my chlorine was old and, while the Cl pump is working, the LC had degraded. Got FC up after trip to find LC, but being fall and stores not having stock, was a goat rodeo.

I am going to be an SWG convert!

 

[Newdude]

So the PB was going over ‘pool school’ with me back when. He was trying explaining how to dial in the pump/SWG runtime. Lots of math because 40% of 18 is equal 60% of 12. He offhandedly mentioned ‘or just leave the dang pump on low all the time and only touch the SWG a couple times a year’.

*Record scratch*

Wait. Back up. Lazy guy here who went with salt for *less* to do. Leave the pump on for $20 a month instead of $10-$15 and it will be easier ? Sign ME up !!!

You are already running 24/7, so now you will be producing 24/7 too, unlike the 4 hours of the Stenner pump. Dial that bad boy into the top end of target and it will no longer matter *what* happens, *when*.