New Gunite Pool, chlorine tab placement and heater bypass

[ajw22]

I ended up adding some MA to get the pH down and fortunately we got some rain so that should help bring pH and alkalinity down a bit......now just to add the stabilizer and chlorine....any advise on how long to wait after adding MA for the stabilizer and how long after stabilizer to add chlorine?

You separate additions of chlorine and MA by at least 15 to 30 minutes.

All other chemicals can be added one after another.

Add stabilizer using the sock method. Never poyr stabilizer into a skimmer or onto the pool floor.

Recommended Pool Chemicals

Which should I buy? TFP's recommended pool chemicals are cheap, easy, and won't unbalance your pool water.

www.troublefreepool.com

Chemical Storage and Safety - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[sbcpool]

Add stabilizer using the sock method. Never poyr stabilizer into a skimmer or onto the pool floor.

I have these and just dump the stabilizer in. It only takes a few hours to dissolve a few pounds of stabilizer that way. Just don't leave the stabilizer sitting in there when the pump isn't running. Run the pump until it's all dissolved or move the sock out of the skimmer when the pump isn't running.

 

[JerseyMike37]

thanks, that looks great, what about if I use liquid stabilizer to get up and running now, is there any downside other than cost and any tips on adding that?

 

[sbcpool]

If it's liquid you should just be able to add it to the pool and mix it up with the pump/sweeping.

 

[ajw22]

thanks, that looks great, what about if I use liquid stabilizer to get up and running now, is there any downside other than cost and any tips on adding that?

Shake the liquid up well as solids can settle to the bottom.

 

[Newdude]

why would I never use the mineral cartridge?

Hey Mike !! Looks like you've gotten the message but just in case I wanted to hammer it home. Sombody a few weeks back was heck-bent on using the mineral cartridge and 'being the experiment'. Necver mind that we have seen the experiment attempted a bazillion times with posts dating back 15 years..... he was gonna be the first.

He asked 'besides the staining, what are the drawbacks ?'

I replied that the staining *was* the drawback and asked him if ink was shown to inhibit algae, if he would ever add ink to his pool. He didn't reply. so whenever you hear or read what the minerals might do, think of them as ink. Its just not worth the risks. When you have to properly chlorinate the pool either way, it's an even EASIER decision to skip the unneeded secondary system will eventually be harmful.

 

[JerseyMike37]

Shake the liquid up well as solids can settle to the bottom.

Yeah I noticed that, just finished brushing it all up, afterwards added the appropriate chlorine so should be ok, how long do I wait to test water?

 

[ajw22]

Chlorine you can test after 45 minutes.

CYA can take longer. Give it 2 or 3 days to show on tests.

 

[JerseyMike37]

thanks, I already tested and numbers look good (1ppm chlorine and 30ppm CYA) although that is with strips..........The CYA I added was natural chemistry Instant Stabilizer which is supposed to raise the CYA quickly...I did find that it had some crystals that dropped

 

[Bperry]

thanks, I already tested and numbers look good (1ppm chlorine and 30ppm CYA) although that is with strips..........The CYA I added was natural chemistry Instant Stabilizer which is supposed to raise the CYA quickly...I did find that it had some crystals that dropped

1ppm FC (if it’s accurate) isn’t nearly enough. But I wouldn’t trust strips.

 

[JerseyMike37]

good point, now I think I need to get the hardness up....it measured 70 today and goal is 150 for the first 14 days...I'm adding about 6lbs of calcium tonight to slowly bring it up....dissolved 3lbs in each bucket of pool water and letting them cool off a bit then dumping in deep end and a quick brush....does that sound good?

figure I'll keep an eye on it as the plaster is releasing some calcium so I don't want to overshoot it. (6lbs should bring it to 100)

 

[JerseyMike37]

Ok I have a new set of numbers and they look pretty good except for chlorine:

POOL Store spun test:
FC: 0.17
CC: 0.21
pH: 7.8
TA: 96
CH: 115
CYA: 41ppm

so other than the pH that is a touch high everything else looks good except for chlorine

I'm wondering if I am not adding enough chlorine

Yesterday I added 22 ounces of 12.5% Sodium Hypochlorite and again early this morning (test was after about an hour or two)

my goal is a chlorine level of 1 or maybe a touch higher given that it is new plaster and I used the pool math calculator which advises 22 ounces to go from 0ppm to 1ppm......is that wrong? I cannot fully shock the pool but just want to add chlorine to get it up to at least 1ppm

 

[Bperry]

Ok I have a new set of numbers and they look pretty good except for chlorine:

POOL Store spun test:
FC: 0.17
CC: 0.21
pH: 7.8
TA: 96
CH: 115
CYA: 41ppm

so other than the pH that is a touch high everything else looks good except for chlorine

I'm wondering if I am not adding enough chlorine

Yesterday I added 22 ounces of 12.5% Sodium Hypochlorite and again early this morning (test was after about an hour or two)

my goal is a chlorine level of 1 or maybe a touch higher given that it is new plaster and I used the pool math calculator which advises 22 ounces to go from 0ppm to 1ppm......is that wrong? I cannot fully shock the pool but just want to add chlorine to get it up to at least 1ppm

It’s been said but you are not following TFP advice and it’s likely going to bite you by trying to follow two different guidelines. You should pick one and follow it. If you don’t want to follow TFP, no feeling are being hurt.

If you do want to follow the TFP guidelines they are:
1. Test your own water, the pool store and strips are not accurate. Inaccurate testing leads to bad results.

2. Follow the FC/CYA chart always, always, always.

 

[ajw22]

2 - 3 ppm of FC would be a better target during your plaster target. Stay at the high end of the range, not the low end.

The suns UV will consume around 2 ppm of FC. So you lose the FC you add during the day.

You are seeing the problems with pool store testing. How long is the time between when you add the LC and when you get the water to the pool store for testing? The test value you get is not the FC level your pool had 15 minutes after you added the LC.

Add more LC and get your own test kit.

 

[JerseyMike37]

It’s been said but you are not following TFP advice and it’s likely going to bite you by trying to follow two different guidelines. You should pick one and follow it. If you don’t want to follow TFP, no feeling are being hurt.

If you do want to follow the TFP guidelines they are:
1. Test your own water, the pool store and strips are not accurate. Inaccurate testing leads to bad results.

2. Follow the FC/CYA chart always, always, always.

I'm so confused, I thought I was following TFP advice.....just using the pool store testing results until I get an updated test kit
the guideline from TFP are found here:

Start-up New Plaster

The first few months are the most criticle for a newly plastered pool. We're here to share best practices to ensure the plaster will last for many years.

www.troublefreepool.com

and the traditional start-up is what I am following.....pH <=7.8 and add CYA and then "SLOWLY" add chlorine

my pool startup company has pretty much the same recs (although lower pH rec) but not the same instructions (only acid for 2 weeks and 2 tablets of chlorine which is way too low)

 

[JerseyMike37]

2 - 3 ppm of FC would be a better target during your plaster target. Stay at the high end of the range, not the low end.

The suns UV will consume around 2 ppm of FC. So you lose the FC you add during the day.

You are seeing the problems with pool store testing. How long is the time between when you add the LC and when you get the water to the pool store for testing? The test value you get is not the FC level your pool had 15 minutes after you added the LC.

Add more LC and get your own test kit.

sounds good, I'll shoot for the higher number....one other question, everyone bashed pool store testing but the testing disk they use is expensive and looks like a fancy company....is it really that inaccurate?

 

[ajw22]

sounds good, I'll shoot for the higher number....one other question, everyone bashed pool store testing but the testing disk they use is expensive and looks like a fancy company....is it really that inaccurate?

The problem is you don't know the accuracy. It varies all over the place. Take your water into four pool stores and you can get four different sets of test results. It is not just about accuracy but repeatability.

We don't know how accurate your PS test is. But we do know that we can rely on the accuracy and repeatability of the K-2006C or TF100 tests every time.

 

[JerseyMike37]

The problem is you don't know the accuracy. It varies all over the place. Take your water into four pool stores and you can get four different sets of test results. It is not just about accuracy but repeatability.

We don't know how accurate your PS test is. But we do know that we can rely on the accuracy and repeatability of the K-2006C or TF100 tests every time.

got it....I should have the K-2006 on Friday so will have more accurate numbers then

 

[JerseyMike37]

So a strange thing happened....I added muriatic acid last night to drop my pH and then added a lot of sodium hypochlorite (enough to raise level to 3ppm from 0 according to Pool Math) and this morning my numbers with my 2 crappy test kits are the following:

FC: 0 or maybe 0.06
CC: 0 or maybe 0.06
pH: 7.3
TA: around 90
CH: - I don't have this test
CYA: looks like 0 or at least less than 30

obviously I need the good test kits but I'm really surprised that the CYA seems to have dropped and the FC and CC are 0 despite adding more than 3 times as much as I did in prior nights

water level is fine so I'm not sure why CYA might drop and I don't really trust the cheap strips that much but they have shown. higher levels on other days

I did read somewhere that the liquid stabilizer was not maintaining CYA levels as well

also I am pretty much shooting for the NPT startup guide that is recommended here on TFP.....pH 7.2-7.6, FC 1.5-3, TA: 80, CH: 150, CYA 30-50

 

[Bperry]

So a strange thing happened....I added muriatic acid last night to drop my pH and then added a lot of sodium hypochlorite (enough to raise level to 3ppm from 0 according to Pool Math) and this morning my numbers with my 2 crappy test kits are the following:

FC: 0 or maybe 0.06
CC: 0 or maybe 0.06
pH: 7.3
TA: around 90
CH: - I don't have this test
CYA: looks like 0 or at least less than 30

obviously I need the good test kits but I'm really surprised that the CYA seems to have dropped and the FC and CC are 0 despite adding more than 3 times as much as I did in prior nights

water level is fine so I'm not sure why CYA might drop and I don't really trust the cheap strips that much but they have shown. higher levels on other days

I did read somewhere that the liquid stabilizer was not maintaining CYA levels as well

also I am pretty much shooting for the NPT startup guide that is recommended here on TFP.....pH 7.2-7.6, FC 1.5-3, TA: 80, CH: 150, CYA 30-50

If you put CYA in the water, it’s in the water. I’ve read the powdered stuff is better, but I have no idea why.

If it helps any, a quart of 12.5% liquid chlorine increases the FC in my pool about 1ppm. So I used about a 1/2 gallon every day back before I switched to a SWCG. So it depends on what you mean by “a lot of sodium hypochlorite” to know if it’s enough. Your pool is a little smaller so I’d guess somewhere around a quart of 10% might be close every day.

The CYA test needs a few days to show up on the test so wait until you get the good test kit and retest it. It may show up as 30ppm if you added 30ppm and your pool volume estimate is correct.