So we have a new pool, above ground, that has been filled for probably just about a month now. I've been following the TFP method, and we've had great results with water clarity. But we're starting to see a brownish greenish ring around the water line and just below the water line. I've scrubbed the Crud out of if with very little effect. The pool was filled with water from the house spigot/hose. I did look up the village's water report and found the report from 2020 saying they found 1.2 ppm of copper in the tests, which seems high. So I'm starting to think its copper staining. I know the TFP idea is not to add a ton of extra stuff to the pool beyond stabilizer and keeping the FC in range, are there "TFP Approved" sequestrants for the metals? I feel really bad for my mother in law who put in a nice new pool and its already looking dirty, especially since I volunteered to keep it clean!
Possible copper stain, less than month old pool
- Thread starter bpod
- Start date
- May 3, 2014
- 58,459
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I would check for iron first. Put some vitamin C tablets in a sock and crush them up. Hold the sock against the stain for a few minutes and see what happens.
- May 3, 2014
- 58,459
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
So I got C tablets and also dry acid just so I didn't have to make 2 trips (usually use MA for pH adjustments). The C tablets worked a lot better than the acid did, so I think that means it's iron? It's also starting to stain a bit on the floor as well.
- May 3, 2014
- 58,459
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
If vitamin C clears it, it is iron. If it was copper, vitamin C would turn it black.
Ascorbic acid treatment will remove the iron from the surfaces, but you then need to either filter out or sequester the iron.
Ascorbic acid treatment will remove the iron from the surfaces, but you then need to either filter out or sequester the iron.
Go put some cheap plain white paper towels in to the skimmer baskets. Watch by late tomorrow to see if they capture any of the iron. Not only does this help remove some, it confirms that its iron if its brown on the power towels.
If so.... a better thiing to put in to the skimmer is Polyfil like you buy at a craft or fabric store. Stuff that into skimmer basket and let it collect the iron.
Maddie
If so.... a better thiing to put in to the skimmer is Polyfil like you buy at a craft or fabric store. Stuff that into skimmer basket and let it collect the iron.
Maddie
So I asked about this a while ago in the "getting started" forum but I figured I should follow up with the Deep End eggheads. (here is a link to the initial discussion in Getting Started.
Pool was installed, started developing these stains before the pump was even running or the pool was fully filled. Filled with city water through the garden hose. The water is crystal clear thanks to the TFP method, but I'd like to get a handle on whatever is causing the staining. When I first tried to figure out what it was, I tried rubbing it with my thumb, with the pool brush, etc, and nothing was really removing it. The other day I noticed it was more intense in some areas, and my finger/thumb was able to rub some of it off in spots.
I tried dry acid in a sock, and vitamin C tablets in a sock. The acid did nothing, the C tablets rubbed it off but I wouldn't say it "lifted it" off immediately, it needed some elbow grease (though these were cheap low strength vitamins). I did also try the papertowel in the skimmer method, but saw no coloration.
I've read up on the AA method, but I just want to make sure I have my ducks in a row, since the acid is pretty expensive. I understand that the treatment just puts it back in water soluble form. Will polyfill filter that out afterwards? Or am I just going to have to relegate myself to adding sequestrant? The pool level is also getting a little low, I wanted to add some water but I'm trying to avoid adding more iron filled city water if thats actually what the problem is. I've seen the "end of hose 5 micron to .5 micron" filter solution, so if it IS iron, I will buy that setup.
Sorry this is a lot! I'll attach some pictures here:
Pool was installed, started developing these stains before the pump was even running or the pool was fully filled. Filled with city water through the garden hose. The water is crystal clear thanks to the TFP method, but I'd like to get a handle on whatever is causing the staining. When I first tried to figure out what it was, I tried rubbing it with my thumb, with the pool brush, etc, and nothing was really removing it. The other day I noticed it was more intense in some areas, and my finger/thumb was able to rub some of it off in spots.
I tried dry acid in a sock, and vitamin C tablets in a sock. The acid did nothing, the C tablets rubbed it off but I wouldn't say it "lifted it" off immediately, it needed some elbow grease (though these were cheap low strength vitamins). I did also try the papertowel in the skimmer method, but saw no coloration.
I've read up on the AA method, but I just want to make sure I have my ducks in a row, since the acid is pretty expensive. I understand that the treatment just puts it back in water soluble form. Will polyfill filter that out afterwards? Or am I just going to have to relegate myself to adding sequestrant? The pool level is also getting a little low, I wanted to add some water but I'm trying to avoid adding more iron filled city water if thats actually what the problem is. I've seen the "end of hose 5 micron to .5 micron" filter solution, so if it IS iron, I will buy that setup.
Sorry this is a lot! I'll attach some pictures here:
Attachments
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,847
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
It depends. The amount of agitation of iron compared to the iron, FC, and pH levels dictate how well it will filter out mechanically. But it's worth a try. Certainly trying to filter iron before it gets in the pool is a good idea. I will also point out however that your Poolmath log shows the FC as really low on several occasions. Be careful so that you don't end-up fighting both algae and iron. As a suggestion, with only about 2 months or so remaining, performing an AA is good at closing or opening when the water is cold is a good idea since the FC must be close to zero and algae growth should be much slower.
Thanks for the reply. Based on the fact that I can't brush it off, this is likely not mustard algae correct? I just want to make sure I'm attacking the right problem
- Jul 17, 2019
- 3,714
- Pool Size
- 13000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
This would be one of the few times I would say to take a water sample to the pool store, so that they will test for iron and copper in your water.
That will tell you if you have metals and help you with the best course of action.
That will tell you if you have metals and help you with the best course of action.
Would it be prudent to also take "straight from the hose" water, in case all of the iron has already settled out onto the liner? Is that possible?
Sure, you can take a sample of you fill water and ask them to test it for metals. Sometimes city water will have metals in it for a variety of reasons. It could be a regular thing or a once in a while experience. I would take a pool sample and a tap sample and have them tested for metals.
OK this was a while ago but I did get the water tested. Attached are the reports. The report that mentions the FC is low is from the hose, the other is the pool water. They sold my in-laws "Biogaurd Natural result pool enzyme cleaner" based on the results and description of the stain/color. We have not used it yet obviously, as I wanted to run it by the forum.
Since my last update, the staining/coloration has gotten worse. We haven't had to top up the pool THAT much, and I don't think the hose water is SO iron-y that this would be the problem, though I am obviously not the expert. Just seems weird. I am starting to think it could be mustard algae. I brush the pool regularly, but sometimes the areas of color are a little slick to the touch. After rubbing my finger/hand on it a bit, I can feel the "slickness" go away. If I watch underwater while I do this, I can see some of the "stuff" slough off, though there is still more under. If I scrape with my fingernail in most places, I can get it to go away. It is most prominent in certain areas (under and near the ladder, on areas where there is a seam in the vinyl, etc).
I'm wondering if I need to do a mustard algae treatment (SLAM and then raise to mustard level). The water is very clear which is why I never assumed algae, and I thought mustard algae would come off easier. Unless its mustard on top of iron...
Since my last update, the staining/coloration has gotten worse. We haven't had to top up the pool THAT much, and I don't think the hose water is SO iron-y that this would be the problem, though I am obviously not the expert. Just seems weird. I am starting to think it could be mustard algae. I brush the pool regularly, but sometimes the areas of color are a little slick to the touch. After rubbing my finger/hand on it a bit, I can feel the "slickness" go away. If I watch underwater while I do this, I can see some of the "stuff" slough off, though there is still more under. If I scrape with my fingernail in most places, I can get it to go away. It is most prominent in certain areas (under and near the ladder, on areas where there is a seam in the vinyl, etc).
I'm wondering if I need to do a mustard algae treatment (SLAM and then raise to mustard level). The water is very clear which is why I never assumed algae, and I thought mustard algae would come off easier. Unless its mustard on top of iron...
Last edited:
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,847
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
My thoughts - you are probably looking at a healthy water exchange. You have metals, we know that. A significant amount. You have iron that Vitamin C removes and you appear to have copper that nothing can remove or filter. Iron is from a well or local city water with high levels. Copper is either from a bad heater element, old copper plumbing, mineral sanitization systems, or pool store products. What you need to do first is find out where these metals are coming from, eliminate them, then change some water. That enzyme stuff they sold you won't do anything.
As for algae, I suspect you may have that too. Maybe not mustard, just algae. If all you had was iron 'd say start a SLAM Process to treat the algae and filter out iron at teh same time, but with copper that's not possible. You really need to find the sources of your metals. That's very important for future management.
As for algae, I suspect you may have that too. Maybe not mustard, just algae. If all you had was iron 'd say start a SLAM Process to treat the algae and filter out iron at teh same time, but with copper that's not possible. You really need to find the sources of your metals. That's very important for future management.
Is it not even worth trying a SLAM to see what happens? City water is cheap here but water delivery is not, and I'm not sure how we'd even go about continuing to top it off with evaporation/splash out if we can't use the hose.
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,847
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Sure, no problem. The worst that can happen when running a SLAM Process to kill algae is that you aggravate the iron and/or copper. For the iron it could be a good thing to help with polyfill filtering. The copper not so much, but you might get lucky and teh copper not do anything. Worth a try. Be sure to follow ALL steps on that SLAM page until you pass all three SLAM criteria.
Oh I didn't realize that a SLAM might help with the iron if we have some polyfill going. I guess I'm going to try that. Just a bunch of polyfill in the skimmer basket? I think I've read here that people pick it up at walmart generally.