Mistake with Yellow Treat (Sodium Bromide)

[jfar86]

I've read this forum for years and learned a lot, but apparently not quite enough.

By way of brief background, I've had mustard algae a few times, and found that Yellow Treat has been the only way to treat it. The last few times, it worked fine. This time, I think I made a mistake.

Basically, I treated the pool with Yellow Treat, and quickly added some chlorine. The pool was not maintaining FC levels, so I thought I still had mustard algae. I added another container (about 2 lbs, for 3 lbs total) and again the pool wouldn't hold FC. Every time I add chlorine, either liquid or cal hypo powder, the water turns yellow where it is added, and the chlorine almost instantly goes to zero. I read that this could potentially be a result of metals. I used metal

The rest of my levels are ok. The CYA is right around 30. My pool is about 24k gallons, so I would like to avoid draining and starting over if at all feasible due to the cost. Do I just keep hitting this with chlorine? Let it go for a while? I'm really stumped as to where to go from here. Thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[Donldson]

Welcome to TFP.

The good news is that the water is probably not changing color because of metals. The bad news is because all the bromide you have added has turned your pool in to a bromine pool and the yellow is from extremely high bromine levels. You are also unable to hold Br (it's not FC because you have a bromine pool) because bromine cannot be stabilized against UV and is burning off.

Only way to fix it is a 100% water exchange. You should not use sodium bromide in a chlorine pool. That this stuff is recommended by pool stores is disgusting and you will never find it recommended here.

 

[jfar86]

Welcome to TFP.

The good news is that the water is probably not changing color because of metals. The bad news is because all the bromide you have added has turned your pool in to a bromine pool and the yellow is from extremely high bromine levels. You are also unable to hold Br (it's not FC because you have a bromine pool) because bromine cannot be stabilized against UV and is burning off.

Only way to fix it is a 100% water exchange. You should not use sodium bromide in a chlorine pool. That this stuff is recommended by pool stores is disgusting and you will never find it recommended here.

Thank you for the response. I was afraid of that.

Is there a point where all of the bromine will eventually burn off from the sun?

 

[Donldson]

Bromine reduces to bromide, which then reacts with any oxidizer in the water (specifically chlorine). And the cycle repeats. That is why why need all of the water replaced, even a couple ppm of bromide can cause massive UV losses. Bromide isn't going anywhere on its own, it has to be physically removed.

 

[jfar86]

Thanks again for your responses. One more question. I've added 4 gallons of 10% chlorine a few times, and separately added between 3-6 bags of cal hypo. Every time I've tried, I haven't held a reading of FC or Bromine (my understanding is that they would read the same) for even a half hour. Does that sound right? Or is it possible that there is something else wrong with the water?

 

[JamesW]

How are you testing the water?

The levels might be so high that the reagent is bleaching out and it looks like there is no chlorine when it is really very high.

 

[jfar86]

How are you testing the water?

The levels might be so high that the reagent is bleaching out and it looks like there is no chlorine when it is really very high.

Initially I used a Taylor kit to confirm that there was no chlorine. I've been using strips while I add just for a quick look at whether or not there was anything. I'll quickly get a little indicator while I am adding and then nothing shortly thereafter - within 15-30 minutes.

 

[JamesW]

Try an oto test.

 

[JamesW]

Initially I used a Taylor kit to confirm that there was no chlorine.

Which Taylor kit?

Are you using FASDPD?

Test Kits Compared

 

[JamesW]

Every time I add chlorine, either liquid or cal hypo powder, the water turns yellow where it is added, and the chlorine almost instantly goes to zero.

If you are seeing the yellow effect, the bromide is very high or the bromine is very high or the pH is very low.

You need fasdpd or oto to rule out super high bromine.

What is the pH and TA (Total alkalinity)?

As noted, you will probably need to do significant dilution to get back to normal.

If you drain, make sure that you know how to do it safely without damaging anything.

A pool can pop out of the ground if you drain it wrong.

 

[jfar86]

If you are seeing the yellow effect, the bromide is very high or the bromine is very high or the pH is very low.

You need fasdpd or oto to rule out super high bromine.

What is the pH and TA (Total alkalinity)?

As noted, you will probably need to do significant dilution to get back to normal.

If you drain, make sure that you know how to do it safely without damaging anything.

A pool can pop out of the ground if you drain it wrong.

PH is about 7.4 and TA is about 77. I'm not sure exactly which Taylor test kit I have - it was left by the previous owner. But I will look and run a fasdpd or oto test. If the bromine is super high, that should be sanitizing the pool, correct?

 

[JamesW]

If the bromine is super high, that should be sanitizing the pool, correct?

Yes, but what does the water look like?

Has anyone used bromine tabs in the pool?

 

[jfar86]

After a few days out of town, I returned, and so did the mustard algae. At this point, am I better off treating it with the other container of sodium bromide, or should I try to SLAM with bleach and/or cal hypo? At this point, my primary goal is to get the pool useable and relatively clear until I close it in 6-8 weeks.

 

[Donldson]

Wait a minute. If this stuff is such a godsend for mustard algae, why does it keep coming back?

I actually know the answer, I'm just trying to understand why you want to keep dumping something in to the water that has permanently ruined your water chemistry (hint: the yellow treat use is actually why the algae is back) and doesn't actually solve the problem.

 

[jfar86]

Wait a minute. If this stuff is such a godsend for mustard algae, why does it keep coming back?

I actually know the answer, I'm just trying to understand why you want to keep dumping something in to the water that has permanently ruined your water chemistry (hint: the yellow treat use is actually why the algae is back) and doesn't actually solve the problem.

I had mustard algae a few years ago and it worked for me. I realize now that it was a mistake and that I'm probably out a few grand next year with draining and re-filling. My biggest question is what is the best way to clear things up for the rest of the summer, given the current state?

 

[JamesW]

SLAM Process

 

[jfar86]

SLAM Process

Would you still recommend SLAM with the pool likely being a bromine pool now, or would you add more sodium bromide? I tried to find an answer on that and haven't come up with anything.

 

[Donldson]

Adding more bromide to a pool with an already considerable bromide bank would do precisely nothing. Throw whatever you have left away.

If you insist on managing your bromine pool for the rest of the year then you need to treat it as a pool with no CYA because the bromine is not affected by it. That means bromine will burn off quickly, you'll need to keep the Br levels between 3-5 ppm and check it every day at least once. To perform the SLAM Process your target Br level will be 20 ppm and perform the process as otherwise indicated substituting "FC" for "Br". You can use bleach or cal-hypo to brominate the water, preferably bleach but if you're soon replacing the water then the CH level isn't much of a concern.

 

[jfar86]

Adding more bromide to a pool with an already considerable bromide bank would do precisely nothing. Throw whatever you have left away.

If you insist on managing your bromine pool for the rest of the year then you need to treat it as a pool with no CYA because the bromine is not affected by it. That means bromine will burn off quickly, you'll need to keep the Br levels between 3-5 ppm and check it every day at least once. To perform the SLAM Process your target Br level will be 20 ppm and perform the process as otherwise indicated substituting "FC" for "Br". You can use bleach or cal-hypo to brominate the water, preferably bleach but if you're soon replacing the water then the CH level isn't much of a concern.

Got it, thank you! I have no interest in running it as a bromine pool full time, but I close it soon anyway, and if I'm going to re-fill, I'd rather wait until next year. I have a solar cover so I can protect it from the sun. Of course, that cover is the root of my issues (pump died, small hole, algae on the top before I could get a new pump), but that's a whole separate issue.

 

[ferretbone]

How are you testing the water?

The levels might be so high that the reagent is bleaching out and it looks like there is no chlorine when it is really very high.

BINGO !!!!!!!!!!!!

You still have chlorine in your pool, you just cant detect it. If you only used 3lbs in a 24,000 pool then....... Continue mission you will be able to detact that chlroine agian in about a week maybe a little longer. Where it turned yellow in the spots you poured the yellow out is normal. I bet where you shock the pool it turns yellow right, it should? When it stops turning yellow where you shock you'll begin to see chorinne on your test again. The sky hasn't fallen. There is no reason to add any more yellow out. Just shock ( AS NEEDED ) it and reactivate what you already poured in.

Many here do not like flying blind, I know I don't. The sky hasn't fallen. I've been there done that so many times, most times on purpose (take that Chicken little). You've already landed safe.