Pool service company disaster. What should I do?

[beachhouse]

Hi guys,

I recently moved into a house with a 20,000-gallon swimming pool.
The landlord uses a pool service company and they come every week to check the chemicals and clean the pool (they are pretty expensive).

I went through most of the pool school and I realized they are doing a terrible job. Basically, all they do is throwing chlorine tablets into the pool every week.
Since I didn't trust their measurements (they use strips), I bought a Taylor K2006 kit, and this is what I got:

- Ph: 7,4
- FC: 11 ppm
- CC: 1 ppm
- CYA: 290
- TA: 120

The main issue here is the CYA. Reading the forum, I learned that the only way to bring down the CYA is to partially drain and refill the pool.
Also, the FC is way too low for this CYA level (290 * 7.5% = 21.75). It's almost impossible to keep the FC at 21.75.

I called their manager and they could not explain why the CYA is that high and they reassured me the problem can be fixed using specific chemicals. They were unable to give me details, but they told me that the CYA will go back to normal in two weeks.

What would you do? Would you believe the manager?
Is there any risk of getting algae since the chlorine level is too low for this level of CYA?

Thanks,
Fabio

 

[ajw22]

How did you measure a CYA of 290?

No, I would not believe anything that manager said. He is just blowing smoke.

How long are you renting the house for?

 

[zea3]

The CYA test maxes out at 100ppm. You can take a cup of pool water and mix it with a cup of tap water and test the CYA on that mixture. Take the result and double it for a ballpark figure. Are you required to pay for the pool service as part of the lease agreement, or is it included in the monthly rent?

 

[PoolGate]

Is this a short term rental or long term?

 

[V___25]

Welcome!
Have you talked to your landlord? Is he/she willing to turn over pool maintenance to you and perhaps pass along the savings in a bit of a rent discount?
Definitely double check that CYA number as mentioned above by doing a diluted test but if pool maintenance has just been throwing in tabs for who knows how long, then it's probably pretty high.

If the landlord is ok with firing the pool company and allowing you to have a go at it, then the folks here will guide you through everything you need to know to ditch the pool guys, stay out of the pool store, and have a nice easy pool!

 

[beachhouse]

Thanks for your replies!

It's a 1-year rental, so I want to make sure I keep the pool in good shape.
@ajw22 I did a diluted test to measure 290, using the Taylor K2006 kit. I mixed 2 parts of tap water with 1 part of swimming pool water. I got a CYA of ~97, which I multiplied by 3 (hence CYA = 290).

I spoke again with the pool company, and now they are claiming the way to fix the problem is to stop adding chlorine. I am afraid that will just cause bacteria and algae.

@zea3 @V___25 I am required to pay for the pool maintenance, but I think the landlord is fine with firing the service company if I can prove they are incompetent. And I could take the maintenance over with your help.

The main issue is that I don't know how to bring the CYA from 290 to 40, and that's why I don't want to fire the pool maintenance company yet.

I read on this forum that draining the pool is a complex task that should be performed by professionals. Is that correct?
Also, if I wanted to bring the CYA from 290 to 40, shouldn't I replace ~85% of the water in the pool?

Thanks,
Fabio

 

[jimbethesda]

I spoke again with the pool company, and now they are claiming the way to fix the problem is to stop adding chlorine. I am afraid that will just cause bacteria and algae.

We see a lot of incompetent pool companies on this forum, but this might win for the "best" worst advice. The "chlorine" they use does also add CYA, but the solution to not increasing it further is to start using liquid chlorine which just adds chlorine, water, and a little salt. The only solution to high CYA is to drain. If you stop adding chlorine, you will have a green mess on your hands, not to mention nothing to kill the bacteria and other nasties in the water.

 

[ajw22]

You can’t read a CYA level of 97. When you dilute the water you increase the error. Call your CYA 300+. It is ultra high. You need to drain 95% of the water to get it down to 30 CYA. That is effectively a complete drain.

What type of pool is it?

How many gallons in the pool?

Read Draining - Further Reading

You don’t fix high CYA by stop adding chlorine. That is absurd.

 

[V___25]

I am seriously laughing out loud at their suggestion to stop adding chlorine. Please don't do that. Stop using tabs for sure.

 

[beachhouse]

Thanks again for your replies!

@jimbethesda @ajw22 I totally agree that what they are proposing is absurd, and my concern is that the pool will become unusable soon due to bacteria and algae. But they feel they are the "experts" and I am just a newbie.

@ajw22 It's an inground plaster pool. The capacity is ~20,000 gallons.

@jimbethesda I could switch to liquid chlorine, but keeping a FC level of 300 * 7.5% = 22.5 ppm would require an insane amount of liquid chlorine. That's why I want them to fix the CYA problem first.

I am waiting for a callback from the pool service company. Unfortunately, I don't have the equipment to drain the pool myself, so my only hope is that they agree to drain and refill the pool to fix the CYA problem, which was caused by their negligence.

Thanks,
Fabio

 

[PoolGate]

I think I would do the CYA test again with a 4x dilution. I am also not sure how your pool is clean now with a CYA at 300+ your minimum FC level would be very high on the order of 30.

 

[jimbethesda]

Yes, a lot of chlorine to get up to the required minimum, but once at that level, not much to maintain it.

According to Pool math, to go from 11.5 to 23 using 10% liquid chlorine, you'd need about 2.5 gallons.

You still need to drain to get CYA down, but I would increase FC immediately to avoid bigger problems.

 

[ajw22]

Pool company is unlikely to agree to drain the pool on their dime until the water turns green. And if you muck around with the water chemistry they will blame you for the green water.

You cannot have a rational science based discussion with many pool professionals. They have their ways they do their business.

That is why pool owners just fire them and take control of their pool. As a renter you are in a difficult position. Talk to the owner about you taking responsibility for the pool. If that is what you want to do. You will then need to buy the equipment- test kit, chemicals, pump, etc. - needed to maintain the pool.

 

[PoolGate]

You are stuck between a rock and a hard place. It will be hard to go to the owner and say the pool company is incompetent since the pool itself looks fine. They are not going to take your word over the "professionals". Not to mention it will cost $500+ to empty and fill the pool. Are you in the last season for your rental agreement with the pool? If so, I think I'd just leave well enough alone for the remaining month of swim season. It is almost certainly way cleaner than most public pools.

 

[zea3]

I think you have to allow the pool company to do their job at this point, since you are not the homeowner, however document the condition of the pool. Keep a daily log with test results and photos and when the pool turns green (and it will) turn a copy of all that information over to the landlord and see if they will let you take control of the pool. Your other option at this point is to supplement their terrible service with liquid chlorine to keep the pool clear until fall.

How does the pool look now?

 

[Homebrewale]

Why is it that I sometimes have evil thoughts? I'm thinking you could try to find someone with a green pool and bring back a bucket of water to add to your pool after they stop adding chlorine.

 

[renesme]

Why is it that I sometimes have evil thoughts? I'm thinking you could try to find someone with a green pool and bring back a bucket of water to add to your pool after they stop adding chlorine.

"Oh gee golly whiz. How did the pool turn green so very fast?"

 

[beachhouse]

I followed the advice of @zea3 and asked the pool service company to go ahead with their plan.
The landlord is fine with me taking over the maintenance, but I won't do it until the CYA problem is fixed.

Visually, the water looks clean.

They plan to lower the FC to 3ppm and then use a product called Bio-Active CYA reduced to bring the CYA down.
(I know what you are thinking, but I need to let them fail before I can ask them to drain and refill the pool).

I will update this thread on a daily basis, for documentation purposes.

07/27: FC is at 10ppm.
They threw a bottle of Chlorine neutralizer (Thio Trine) in the water.
The water looks clean.

07/28: the FC dropped to 5ppm.
They threw another bottle of Chlorine neutralizer (Thio Trine) into the water.
The water looks clean.

Thanks,
Fabio

 

[JimMarshall]

I followed the advice of @zea3 and asked the pool service company to go ahead with their plan.
The landlord is fine with me taking over the maintenance, but I won't do it until the CYA problem is fixed.

Visually, the water looks clean.

They plan to lower the FC to 3ppm and then use a product called Bio-Active CYA reduced to bring the CYA down.
(I know what you are thinking, but I need to let them fail before I can ask them to drain and refill the pool).

I will update this thread on a daily basis, for documentation purposes.

07/27: FC is at 10ppm.
They threw a bottle of Chlorine neutralizer (Thio Trine) in the water.
The water looks clean.

07/28: the FC dropped to 5ppm.
They threw another bottle of Chlorine neutralizer (Thio Trine) into the water.
The water looks clean.

Thanks,
Fabio

*Facepalm*

 

[zea3]

If you do a search on Bio-Active, we do have a couple of threads about it. One person lowered their CYA some, but not enough, and for another person it did not work at all. I know you know it won't work, just letting you know what info we have on it. You may want to stock up on liquid chlorine to slam the pool once you take over.