Pool Turned Brown Again!!

[Racingpools]

I would still try to configure a separate bucket of some kind with polyfill as seen in those other posts and videos to help expedite iron removal.

Set up done. I have a 1/3hp submergible pump filling up a bucket stuffed with polyfil - packed but not overpacked. Getting a constant stream through the bucket. Is there any tips to get the most out of the process? Right now after about 6 hours I'm not seeing any browning on the polyfil or changes to the pool, I assume it's probably just patience from here.

 

[mknauss]

Iron will precipitate out in a higher pH environment. So, a Cal Hypo tablet (not trichlor) will do that. Might be hard to find only a few, however.

 

[Racingpools]

Iron will precipitate out in a higher pH environment. So, a Cal Hypo tablet (not trichlor) will do that. Might be hard to find only a few, however.

I already added some liquid chlorine today to try to help the iron precipitate. I'm not familiar with Cal Hypo tablets but would something like pH Up be a good option at this time, since I already added chlorine today and that kind of pH should I be shooting for?

 

[mknauss]

Problem with pH UP - which I suspect is soda ash, is that it adds lots of TA and it dissolves too quickly.

 

[Texas Splash]

One thing's for sure, there is a HUGE difference between the pic in post #1 and this one from today. Today's pic shows less aggravated iron and just looks more like algae. But your pool plaster is fairly new if I recall, so you can't increase the FC to a SLAM level for at least 30 days. But I would keep the FC on the high end of your recommended range as noted on the FC/CYA Levels. For example, if your CYA was 40 and the recommended range 5-7, I'd keep the FC at the 7-8 range. Also let the pH slide upwards just a bit to the mid-7s - on its own. No need to force it up. Iron should precipitate more that way so the poly can capture it. Good job with the additional filter. You may be grabbing more than you realize.

 

[Texas Splash]

Also remember that on day 3 of fill, they added 5 gallons of chlorine with no stabilizer, so the chlorine was unbuffered and extremely strong. I suspect that's why it was so dark brown and first and transitioning a bit now. If you really want to get more iron to precipitate, you can push the FC level even higher if you wish to aid in the poly process. At some point you want to find that happy medium of knowing you do have some iron in the water, but not enough to react to a regular routine of chlorine at the recommended FC/CYA level.

 

[Racingpools]

One thing's for sure, there is a HUGE difference between the pic in post #1 and this one from today. Today's pic shows less aggravated iron and just looks more like algae. But your pool plaster is fairly new if I recall, so you can't increase the FC to a SLAM level for at least 30 days. But I would keep the FC on the high end of your recommended range as noted on the FC/CYA Levels. For example, if your CYA was 40 and the recommended range 5-7, I'd keep the FC at the 7-8 range. Also let the pH slide upwards just a bit to the mid-7s - on its own. No need to force it up. Iron should precipitate more that way so the poly can capture it. Good job with the additional filter. You may be grabbing more than you realize.

Absolutely it's getting better. I'll check the FC in the morning and adjust accordingly, I may have over done it on the liquid chlorine but the good news is that I just hit 30 days after the install of new plaster. Whats the best way to tell if it's algae vs iron?

My CYA is below scale, so I'm throwing 4lbs in a sock and hanging it in front of the return to get that up.

 

[Texas Splash]

Whats the best way to tell if it's algae vs iron?

You can do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test in the next day or two if you like. That should tell you if you have an algae issue. Once you confirm your new CYA level, go back to the FC/CYA Levels to see where your FC should be. After the 30 day mark, if your water looks cloudy/dirty and/or your fail the OCLT, then you will find out how the water will react when you increase the FC to the higher SLAM level. We always tell people to treat for algae first, then go after the iron (or at the same time) because the elevated FC will aggravate iron, but you just had new plaster so that changed things a bit. How much aggravation of iron depends on the amount of iron and FC level. But you're doing well.

 

[Racingpools]

Monday morning update:
The pool actually appeared to get darker again with the current Chlorine levels presumably oxidizing more iron. It definitely has a more brown hue than green which isn’t as obvious in the pictures. The polyfil bucket doesn’t appear to be catching much if any iron. The paper towels in the skimmer seem to be grabbing more of the iron, and the filter fiber stuff in the cartridge filter turning dark brown every day, which I’ve been cleaning and changing every 24hrs. I’ll be doing the overnight chlorine loss test tonight when my FAS-DPD kit arrives as I can now SLAM if needed.

This is the 30th day that I’ve been fighting this issue and I’m starting to lose hope as even the miracle polyfil trick isn’t working and I’m getting more staining on the steps (the only plaster I can see) as every day goes by. What else can I be doing, and at what point do I just do an AA treatment, drain the pool and ship in fresh water?

 

[Texas Splash]

Just to be sure, can you confirm the staining on the steps is indeed iron with Vitamin C tablets. It should react quickly. May sound like an odd request given previous citric acid reactions, but after this many days might be good to confirm.
-

 

[Racingpools]

Just to be sure, can you confirm the staining on the steps is indeed iron with Vitamin C tablets. It should react quickly. May sound like an odd request given previous citric acid reactions, but after this many days might be good to confirm.
-

Vitamin C tabs are enroute already. Knew I’d need them sooner or later. Will confirm later today.
However, I had previously completed a citric acid treatment and this lifted all stains.

 

[Texas Splash]

However, I had previously completed a citric acid treatment and this lifted all stains.

I know it sounds odd, but with this much effort invested already, it might be good to confirm. In the meantime, what is your current FC, CYA, and pH?

 

[Racingpools]

I know it sounds odd, but with this much effort invested already, it might be good to confirm. In the meantime, what is your current FC, CYA, and pH?

From the pool store visit this morning.

FC - 0ppm
CYA - 15ppm
pH - 7.4

I just added 4lbs stabilizer to bring CYA up to hopefully 45ppm. Giving that a couple hours and then going to add 2x 2.5gal (10.5% Sodium hypochlorite) to get to a target of 16ppm chlorine. This should tackle any algae issue and also really oxidize any iron in the water to enable the polyfil to catch it. Obviously this could cause worse stains but once I have the water back under control I can tackle those. Any flaws in my logic?

 

[Texas Splash]

I wish I could've known before you added that much stabilizer. In this current condition, a CYA of 30 should've been plenty, that way a SLAM FC level would only be 12. By increasing the CYA to 45 (round-up to 50), your FC SLAM level would be 20. Your pH is still remaining low, but since you have an ice tea cocktail now anyways, if it creeps up, let it. That, along with the increased FC, should help to allow for better iron filtering.

It's surprising that with such brown water you aren't already catching more iron, but perhaps that's in-part to the previous sequestrants and stuff. Not sure, but I think another day of filtering through poly should tell us if alternative actions should be considered.

I have to emphasize as well ..... you take a huge risk accepting pool store test results. We see their numbers, especially CYA, off many, many times. I would encourage you to use your own TF-100 (or Taylor K-2006C) test kit as your own results will always be more accurate.

 

[Racingpools]

I wish I could've known before you added that much stabilizer. In this current condition, a CYA of 30 should've been plenty, that way a SLAM FC level would only be 12. By increasing the CYA to 45 (round-up to 50), your FC SLAM level would be 20. Your pH is still remaining low, but since you have an ice tea cocktail now anyways, if it creeps up, let it. That, along with the increased FC, should help to allow for better iron filtering.

It's surprising that with such brown water you aren't already catching more iron, but perhaps that's in-part to the previous sequestrants and stuff. Not sure, but I think another day of filtering through poly should tell us if alternative actions should be considered.

I have to emphasize as well ..... you take a huge risk accepting pool store test results. We see their numbers, especially CYA, off many, many times. I would encourage you to use your own TF-100 (or Taylor K-2006C) test kit as your own results will always be more accurate.

Would it be worth getting a 3rd jug of Chlorine to achieve those better SLAM FC levels?

Yeah, that's my thought too... I did add ALOT of sequestering agent. Probably somewhere around 6 quarts over the last 4 weeks.

Funny that you mention that. I came back and double checked the results. My results were using Taylor K kit: FC - 1. CYA - Below scale (<30ppm). pH - 7.0. My FAS-DPD kit arrives this afternoon.

 

[Texas Splash]

Good you have reagents arriving soon. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves until you get that FAS-DPD. It takes some time for chlorine to breakdown sequestrants. If you're only showing an FC of 1 right now, then we can expect additional potential for algae and less interaction with the iron. I would increase it as best as you can using the PoolMath APP which helps you determine how much chlorine to add to reach a goal. For example, in a 15K pool it takes 3 gallons of 10% chlorine to make FC go from zero to 20.

 

[Racingpools]

Good you have reagents arriving soon. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves until you get that FAS-DPD. It takes some time for chlorine to breakdown sequestrants. If you're only showing an FC of 1 right now, then we can expect additional potential for algae and less interaction with the iron. I would increase it as best as you can using the PoolMath APP which helps you determine how much chlorine to add to reach a goal. For example, in a 15K pool it takes 3 gallons of 10% chlorine to make FC go from zero to 20.

Right. Which is where I got my numbers from. With 16ppm being my target and start point (presumed 0-1ppm), that's 2.3 jugs on a 15,000 gal pool or 2.9 jugs to go to 20ppm. I'll report back on FAS-DPD result before SLAMing the pool.

 

[Racingpools]

Good you have reagents arriving soon. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves until you get that FAS-DPD. It takes some time for chlorine to breakdown sequestrants. If you're only showing an FC of 1 right now, then we can expect additional potential for algae and less interaction with the iron. I would increase it as best as you can using the PoolMath APP which helps you determine how much chlorine to add to reach a goal. For example, in a 15K pool it takes 3 gallons of 10% chlorine to make FC go from zero to 20.

Also, I just un-packed the polyfil bucket. Next to nothing catching in the polyfil but a layer of paper towels and filter fiber stuff looked to be starting to catch good amounts of iron. I've re-packed it with more paper towels and filter fiber stuff - Fingers crossed.

 

[Racingpools]

FAS-DPD arrived. I'm showing FC - 1.5ppm. CC - 1.5ppm. CYA 50ppm (Doh!!). pH 7.2.

I have 4 x 2.5gal 10.5% jugs on standby. I'm shooting for 20ppm FC. Pool Calculator calls for 2.5 jugs, which I'm going to throw in now and then keep it a 20ppm until I have 1, Clear pool (even if it's brown), CC of <0.5ppm & pass the OCLT. Is there anything else I should be doing at this time? Filter freshly cleaned with new filter fiber stuff. Both submersible pump and pool pump will be running 24/7.

 

[Texas Splash]

For the next 24 hrs or so, I'd just continue to maintain the FC of 20 as best as you can consistently and keep the filters stuffed with fresh paper towels since those seem to be working better.