Pool Renovation (with Spa Addition)

[TheJoshHarding]

Hi everyone! I’m finally taking the leap on a pool renovation after my plaster is officially worn out. We’ve decide to add a spill-over during the renovation and I wanted to document and discuss the process going forward in case my experience helps others. We have an adjacent garage and outdoor kitchen, so I ran the gas line previously that will serve the heater. After discussing the project with the builder, we think the best idea is to get one more season out of it and begin in August to have the project complete and the hot tub up and running for Fall/Winter use.

A lot of our house is grey painted brick, with black accents, so we’ve settle on a smooth pebble finish with black tile. Right now my heart is set on the NPT Mavericks mosaic for its black appearance, but I know this is going to be a high dollar tile. (NPT Mavericks Mosaic)

A couple questions the community:

1.) I currently have an LED bulb in a standard housing. It has served us well, though cycling through colors by turning on/off is a pain. What is the general consensus out there for lighting right now? We’re going to automate as much as possible, and I would like to have the full range of colors within both the pool and hot tub (I love my Philips Hue lighting elsewhere outside).

2.) We would like to do a brick exterior on the spa to coordinate with the rest of our house, but I’m having a tough time in my head thinking about the transition from exterior wall to sheer wall on the spill over. Has anyone done or seen something like this in the wild? I dont want to wrap the outside in tile, or introduce a new element like stone.

3.) Are there any other new and innovative features you’ve seen included in renovations? We’re going to have to do a fair amount of pool deck cutting and replacing for new plumbing/spa, etc. Existing concrete is very fatigued, so our plan right now is to texture coat and paint Instead of going with an entirely new deck. I’m probably going to replace the skimmer box as its pretty worn out. Are auto-fills worth it? I don’t refill my pool a ton, but I’m thinking with the spill over aspect of the spa its probably more susceptible to evaporation and water loss.

Here is an overhead drone shot of our yard, as well as my primitive sketch showing spa location. Our pool equipment is housed in the middle section of that building at the top of the screen. Plans are to screen the heater with some landscape plantings or creeper type vines.

 

[TheJoshHarding]

To the top

 

[TheRaven]

1.) I currently have an LED bulb in a standard housing. It has served us well, though cycling through colors by turning on/off is a pain. What is the general consensus out there for lighting right now? We’re going to automate as much as possible, and I would like to have the full range of colors within both the pool and hot tub (I love my Philips Hue lighting elsewhere outside).

Really the only one I am qualified to comment on - stick with the LED retro in a standard housing. I did extensive research on lighting last year for my renovation because my pool previously did not have lighting at all. What I found is this - no matter what you buy, you are going to be replacing it after roughly two seasons (maybe less than that if you use your pool year round). Given that the nicheless LED options are $2k-ish per fixture, and many require you to drain the pool to replace them, it seems insane to subject yourself to that cost and aggravation for a feature you're really only going to use a couple times a year at parties to impress your friends. The rest of the time you'll pick a color and stay there. If you really want crazy lighting, put in two or three of the standard fixtures with retrofits on the same circuit so they run synchronized. Like I said you'll be replacing them every two seasons so this means you replace two or three $100 bulbs in an afternoon instead of calling your pool builder to schedule an $8000 job in six weeks.

 

[TheJoshHarding]

Well—we hit the pause button on this last year and we’re finally going to take the plunge. Tile is ordered and should be in next week. We went with a mosaic black marble to pickup some other areas of our backyard (exterior brick, outdoor shower, etc). The tile was only available in a shiny finish that I had honed to go with something matte.

https://imgur.com/a/32j8z5s

https://imgur.com/a/CxFctLw

I’m finalizing the equipment list. I am thinking the following and welcome the input:

Filter

• Pentair EC-160340 (320 SF of filter area. 100 sf per 10,000 gallons?). Tank size is only 22” wide. Is there any benefit to going with a larger filter?

Pump

• Pentair VS/VF Pump (Item #011056). This is a 3 HP pump, but speed and flow adapts to preset flow rates.
• 2” to 1.5” adapters as my existing plumbing is 1.5”

Heater

• Pentair EC-462028 (400,000 BTU), Natural Gas. Dimensions are 32.61" x 23.02" x 28.15"

Controller

• Pentair Intellicenter i8PS (includes wireless ability)
  • This model # includes the IC60 below and 2 valves. Model Code: 8PSIC60
• Wireless Kit included in Intellicenter.

Chlorinator

• Pentair Intellichlor IC60 (I want to upsize so it runs less and lasts longer)

Valves

• Pentair Intellivalve (I’m guessing 2–one on each side of heater.)

Lights

• Pool (2)
  • EC-602124 (12V version, comes with 100’ of cord)
  • One in existing location, another added in shallow end.
• Spa
  • EC-640132 (12V version, comes with 100’ of cord)

Automatic Pool Cleaner

• Polaris?
• Dolphin?

Laminar Jet (maybe but probably not)

• Pentair 580001G (Grey Cover?)

 

[TheJoshHarding]

Will be going with a dark grey interior pebble finish as well as new still going with the texture coat over top of existing pool deck which is old concrete.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Josh,

The two IntelliValves that come with the IntelliCenter are for your Intake and Return valves. They are used to switch your system between the Pool mode and the Spa mode. If you have other valves that you want to control, you will need additional actuators (IntelliValves).

I vote Dolphin robot pool cleaners. I love mine.

The larger the filter the lower the backpressure and the less often you have to clean them.


Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[TheJoshHarding]

What’s your thoughts on controllers? My pool builder is saying that the easytouch is the way to go. I definitely want to be able to start my spa using my phone, likewise I want to make sure I have nice options for lighting, light scenes, etc.

I’m sure some of this is a pool builder set in his routine, but is there a reason for me to fight for the Intellicenter over the Easytouch?

Likewise—he believes the IC60 over the 40 is overkill because the salt cells wont last long enough to see the benefit of the upsizing

 

[Jimrahbe]

Josh,

You want the salt cell to be rated for at least 2 x the volume of your pool/spa. A 20K pool needs at least a 40K cell.

The EasyTouch, by itself cannot be controlled by a phone or PC. It needs an additional upgrade called ScreenLogic. It will work, but kind of like buying an iPhone 5 instead of the newest one for about the same total cost.

The EasyTouch has a max of 12 programs, the IntelliCenter has a max of 100. The EasyTouch is black and white alphanumeric system, the IntelliCenter is color and has icons like your phone. The EasyTouch can only get new firmware if loaded by the dealer. The IntelliCenter gets over the air updates, just like your phone. I could go on, but for the same price it makes no sense to get the EasyTouch.

That said, I have three EasyTouch systems and love them. I see no reason to upgrade them at $1K each, but if I were to build a new pool today, it would have an IntelliCenter.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[TheJoshHarding]

So basically the Intellicenter does everything that at EastyTouch + Screenlogic can do and then some for just about the same cost?

From a programming/installation standpoint, is the Intellicenter going to be like a foreign language to someone who is comfortable with the Easy Touch?

Also for the dolphin cleaner recommendation—i have a 10 foot deep end/dive well in a kidney shaped pool, is there one that performs better than others in this situation?

 

[Turbo1Ton]

Note that if you are planning on more than 4 valve actuators (Intake/Return + 2 more) you will need the valve expansion module added to the Intellicenter.

Programming the Intellicenter is not difficult. Not necessarily intuitive, but not difficult. If the PB is afraid of it, I wouldn't let that steer you away. Plenty of assistance on here to guide you through programming it yourself.

--Jeff

 

[TheJoshHarding]

Note that if you are planning on more than 4 valve actuators (Intake/Return + 2 more) you will need the valve expansion module added to the Intellicenter.

Programming the Intellicenter is not difficult. Not necessarily intuitive, but not difficult. If the PB is afraid of it, I wouldn't let that steer you away. Plenty of assistance on here to guide you through programming it yourself.

--Jeff

Is the need there for 4 valves over just 2?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Josh,

I agree with Jeff on the IntelliCenter. If you can program an EasyTouch you are about 85% there on programming the IntelliCenter. Just need to learn a few new things, but the basic concept is the same.

Are you going to have any water features that you want to control?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[TheJoshHarding]

Josh,

I agree with Jeff on the IntelliCenter. If you can program an EasyTouch you are about 85% there on programming the IntelliCenter. Just need to learn a few new things, but the basic concept is the same.

Are you going to have any water features that you want to control?

Thanks,

Jim R.

I was potentially going to do two led laminar jets but the more I read about them the more trouble they seem to cause.

Functionality I’m looking for is mainly just light driven (spa plus 2 in the pool one of which I have to add), and the ability to turn on spa jets/blower, and spillover remotely.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Functionality I’m looking for is mainly just light driven (spa plus 2 in the pool one of which I have to add), and the ability to turn on spa jets/blower, and spillover remotely.

Josh,

None of that requires any additional IntelliValve Actuators. The spillover is controlled by moving the same valves that switch the system between the pool and spa mode. These valves should come with the automation.

The EasyTouch and IntelliCenter can control all your lights and blower.

I would not get the deck jets either.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Josh,

Also keep in mind that every light, or group of lights, that you want to individually control will require a relay and a transformer.

So, if you have 4 lights and you don't care if they all come on at the same time, and will always be the same color, then you only need one high voltage relay in your automation (for the lights) and one low voltage transformer.

But, if you want to be able to have each light be a different color, and to be able to control when light is on when, and maybe have some kind of light show, you will need 4 relays and 4 transformers.

Jim R.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

Jim's got it covered on the additional actuators. Each additional water feature you want to add and control will require an actuator. I just wasn't sure what all you were considering for water features so I wanted to bring that up. Because that was one reason my PB didn't plumb my system the way I would have liked (and eventually reworked myself to be like), I don't think they knew the valve expansion module existed yet.

--Jeff

 

[TheJoshHarding]

Very thankful for the response. I appreciate it.

Can you recommend a model number for the intellicenter? Would the IntelliCenter Kit i5PS, IC60, LC (w/ Salt) -- Model Code: 5PSIC60
Work? Am I understanding it right that the 5 indicates the amount of relays? 3 lights and the heater would be 4? Is that right? Would a blower motor for the spa be a 5th?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Josh,

The #5 does indicate the total number of relays, but one of them is always dedicated as the Pump/Filter relay and can't be used for anything else. That leaves you with only 4 user programable relays. You really need one of two extra as things will come up you want to control, such as a light over the equipment pad, or landscape lighting, or ??? Other than an IntelliFlo VS style pump, anything that runs off of 120- or 240-volts AC to run will require a relay. Blower motors, booster pumps, lights, I use a couple to control a standalone hot tub, who knows what else you might think of.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[DwightB]

Well—we hit the pause button on this last year and we’re finally going to take the plunge. Tile is ordered and should be in next week. We went with a mosaic black marble to pickup some other areas of our backyard (exterior brick, outdoor shower, etc). The tile was only available in a shiny finish that I had honed to go with something matte.

https://imgur.com/a/32j8z5s

https://imgur.com/a/CxFctLw

I’m finalizing the equipment list. I am thinking the following and welcome the input:

Filter

• Pentair EC-160340 (320 SF of filter area. 100 sf per 10,000 gallons?). Tank size is only 22” wide. Is there any benefit to going with a larger filter?

Pump

• Pentair VS/VF Pump (Item #011056). This is a 3 HP pump, but speed and flow adapts to preset flow rates.
• 2” to 1.5” adapters as my existing plumbing is 1.5”

Heater

• Pentair EC-462028 (400,000 BTU), Natural Gas. Dimensions are 32.61" x 23.02" x 28.15"

Controller

• Pentair Intellicenter i8PS (includes wireless ability)
  • This model # includes the IC60 below and 2 valves. Model Code: 8PSIC60
• Wireless Kit included in Intellicenter.

Chlorinator

• Pentair Intellichlor IC60 (I want to upsize so it runs less and lasts longer)

Valves

• Pentair Intellivalve (I’m guessing 2–one on each side of heater.)

Lights

• Pool (2)
  • EC-602124 (12V version, comes with 100’ of cord)
  • One in existing location, another added in shallow end.
• Spa
  • EC-640132 (12V version, comes with 100’ of cord)

Automatic Pool Cleaner

• Polaris?
• Dolphin?

Laminar Jet (maybe but probably not)

• Pentair 580001G (Grey Cover?)

Hello, just wondering why you’re looking at robot cleaners. Are pressure side cleaners inferior? I’m renovating my pool currently and is leaning towards getting pressure side cleaner with booster pump.

 

[TheJoshHarding]

Hello, just wondering why you’re looking at robot cleaners. Are pressure side cleaners inferior? I’m renovating my pool currently and is leaning towards getting pressure side cleaner with booster pump.

All my of equipment is in an inside equipment room. Space is limited so I’d prefer a standalone. I already have to increase filtration, add the spa blower motor, and several more pipe stub ins/outs.