Upgrade advice (Hayward or Pentair)

[SacPoolPro]

Hi @SacPoolPro and thank you for the detailed info. I'm curious now though... you seem to be the only one on these forums with anything good to say about Hayward. The Hayward option got no love initially and I didn't get any response to a follow-up question. I've noticed that the forums seem to slant pretty heavily towards Pentair. Any idea what's driving this?

One new question: my heating plans have changed and now I'm looking into an FPH rather than a gas or electric heater. I've been following the other FPH threads on this forum and I think it will work well. But I'm not sure it will work with the Hayward Omni controller. You need a controller that can take an external input, and when it fires, open an actuator valve and increase the pump speed. I've been reading the Omni manual and I can't find any way to program it to do this. I have an open call to Hayward (waiting for a call back) but maybe you know?

Leaving the Omni out of it, you can do this directly on the VS using relay inputs and I could drive the actuator separately. But I want remote control and I'm wondering how the relay inputs play together with the Omni.

Hi I'm not partial to any brand, I use Pentair, Hayward, Jandy, and Waterway. It all depends on the situation and the pool/spa setup. I take in a lot of information before guiding customers on a system that is best for them. I think Pentair is big here because its the most accessible to the public. Hayward's best equipment is found on their expert lineup which isn't available to the public (per their terms). Jandy also "quit the internet" so their products are not easy to get unless your in the industry. Waterway is not as well known and is an economy option, also for the pool guys for the most part.
If you just compare the phone app ratings for Pentair, Jandy, and Hayward. Hayward is at the top.

I'm not familiar with the Hotspot FPH heaters. I've come across 2-3 while working. One of the customers absolutely loved it though and said it took his pool guy, an electrician, and a HVAC guy to install it. His was a custom install so I don't know how they normally work with the automation systems. I would imagine the manufacturer would know how to set it up for any system though.
If the Omni smarthub unit won't work, then their new OmniPL should. It's a full size control system like the Easytouch.

 

[SacPoolPro]

Hey Sac's! Thanks for you input. You have probably seen a lot more dead pumps that I will ever.. but you are dealing with equipment mostly, right? I find a lot of people get a SWG and figure its a set and forget thing... They forget to monitor the rest of their chems. Rampant pH will do the same or bad bonding. The salinity is just to low to do any damage on its own.

Yo @riny .. I think the choice of pumps really depends on how much integration you want. Once you chose a platform, everything else falls in place. Its hard to say there is a bias here for one pump over another.. it really depends on the rest of the system as well.

Agreed, those things would definitely play a part. It appears though that there is a battery effect with salt pools which erodes the metal. In particular the metal makeup of the Pentair VS pumps seem more prone to this problem. I've read other articles and forums on this issue and what CMP and Pool Tool have come up with seems like a real must for salt pools. Check it out PoolTool Anodes- Manufacturer of specialty pool and spa tools
I've been installing these on all of my Pentair sets with SWG's this year. Sometimes customers just insist that Pentair is what they want. Time will tell if this works and help these pumps last longer.

 

[riny]

Many thanks all for the input. Since figuring out how to get the FPH to play nice with the automation (thanks to @JamesW), I think I've settled on the Hayward VS 700 Omni.

Now that James told me how to get the FPH to behave like a solar input, it came down to either the Hayward integrated unit or the Pentair SuperFlo VST with IntelliCenter (the far less expensive IntelliConnect doesn't do solar). I got quotes from local dealers for pro-line equipment with full warranties, and it came out to: Hayward $1200, Pentair $2900.

Part of this is because the IntelliConnect is far more automation than I need. The Hayward has two relay outputs and that's enough (one for the SWG, the other for the light). The Pentair includes a load center, it's expandable to tons of relays and multiple bodies of water, and it supports an integrated Pentair SWG... but I don't have or need any of that equipment. I'm never going to add a spa, slide, fountain or other water feature, etc. And the Jandy SWG might not have been my first choice but I already have it so I'm going to use it.

I know this is an investment and I wouldn't decide on price alone, but it seems that the Hayward is totally sufficient. Lacking any compelling reason to spend the extra money, Hayward it is.

 

[mguzzy]

Agreed, those things would definitely play a part. It appears though that there is a battery effect with salt pools which erodes the metal.

If that is the case then it would affect all pools in some manner, since one of the by products of chlorination in any form is salt.. Often a pool that is chlorinated with only liquid chlorine will have almost as much salt as a SWG chlorinated pool. 1000-2000ppm is pretty common in older pools. I had close to 1000ppm when I added my SWG. And that "battery effect" is what bonding is supposed to prevent. I wonder if Pentair pumps have components that are not tied to the bonding lug within their construction. .

 

[ajw22]

I wonder if Pentair pumps have components that are not tied to the bonding lug within their construction. .

On a modern pool pump water is only in contact with the front wet section which is all plastic. Unless you have a leak in the seals the pool water has no contact with the motor or any metal.

Once the seals are leaking in the pump then motor destruction is not far behind regardless of the type of chlorination.