Plumbing to my tiki bar?

[LazyPoolGuy]

Hi all, we're planning a tiki bar and I would like to run hot and cold water out to a bar sink. I've got the drain part figured out, but am trying to figure out how to get from the house to the tiki bar 15' away.

We're located in Canada, so the lines will need a shutoff inside the home, with a way to either drain the outside lines, or blow them out. I'll hire a plumber to do the work, I just want to plan it now in case the pool contractor needs to run conduit that the plumber can push PEX or something else through later.

Can anyone offer some suggestions?

There's a cold hose bib on that wall already, and the utility room is right behind that wall, so easy access to connect to hot and cold lines and have shutoffs inside. Would putting a hot hose bib and second cold hose bib work, and just use an RV hose underground in a conduit work? (at least the RV hose would be rated for drinking water, as long as I can get fittings to work with a bar sink tap). I can then disconnect the hose from the house bib in the winter and blow it out, or remove it from the conduit completely and fish it back through each year?. Any idea for something less ghetto or more visibly appealing from where it comes out of the wall and then underground? (I don't want to core through the foundation wall below grade)

 

[duckcmmndr]

I think I would use a 2" LB with 2" conduit to run 2 pex pipes from the house down under the ground and up at the bar. You can't bury pex so it has to be inside another pipe underground and if you use the 2" LB at the house and conduit down from there it would appear as a standard electrical run.

Like this (the big one is a 2")


Inside in your utility room I would use a total of 4 quarter turn shut off valves and 2 T's.

You would want a shut off valve to start/stop the flow of water to the outside lines. Below that in the line that goes outside you would want a T with another shut off valve on the third leg of the T. The purpose of this one is to have a "port" to blow air through to purge the lines running outside in the winter. So when winter comes on you simply turn off both hot and cold supply to outside, go outside and open both hot and cold on sink faucet, go inside and open the bottom valves in the T's and blow air through them to purge the water out of the lines. Lastly pour a cup of RV antifreeze down the sink to protect the P trap and you are done.

I have an outdoor kitchen...and this is roughly how I did it.

 

[jamjam]

you can run two lines with quarter turn ball valves inside your crawl space/basement - make sure they are burial rated and then have them come out, to a 90 elbow to go under grade then come up to your tiki bar - if you are using a connection from the bib, code probably wants vacuum breakers at some point (but i could be wrong)

 

[LazyPoolGuy]

I think I would use a 2" LB with 2" conduit to run 2 pex pipes from the house down under the ground and up at the bar. You can't bury pex so it has to be inside another pipe underground and if you use the 2" LB at the house and conduit down from there it would appear as a standard electrical run.

Like this (the big one is a 2")
View attachment 325345

Inside in your utility room I would use a total of 4 quarter turn shut off valves and 2 T's.

You would want a shut off valve to start/stop the flow of water to the outside lines. Below that in the line that goes outside you would want a T with another shut off valve on the third leg of the T. The purpose of this one is to have a "port" to blow air through to purge the lines running outside in the winter. So when winter comes on you simply turn off both hot and cold supply to outside, go outside and open both hot and cold on sink faucet, go inside and open the bottom valves in the T's and blow air through them to purge the water out of the lines. Lastly pour a cup of RV antifreeze down the sink to protect the P trap and you are done.

I have an outdoor kitchen...and this is roughly how I did it.

This is a really good idea. I like the idea of the 4 quarter turn valves to give me a port to blow out of. I'm a bit uneasy about having the "air" port inside the house in case something were ever to bump the valve and flood the basement, but in reality it will be in the ceiling over a furnace and hot water tank with little risk of that happening. It would be nice to have the hot and cold T's and valves in the 2" LB so I could have easy access from outside to both sides of lines I would be blowing out but I doubt that housing would be big enough to make that type of connection inside. If we ever sold our house, I'd have to leave some notes for the new homeowner on what to do. We've owned an RV for years, so I'm comfortable blowing lines out and using antifreeze as needed.

Do you think both PEX lines would fit in a 2"? With regard to hot and cold heat transfer to the other line in a shared conduit, at roughly a 20' PEX run, it wouldn't take long to "flush" out any "warm" water in the cold supply line after running the hot water.

I want to run another type LB for network cable, so would just be looking to limit how many I have on the side of the house.

 

[LazyPoolGuy]

you can run two lines with quarter turn ball valves inside your crawl space/basement - make sure they are burial rated and then have them come out, to a 90 elbow to go under grade then come up to your tiki bar - if you are using a connection from the bib, code probably wants vacuum breakers at some point (but i could be wrong)

Great idea. A connection like that could work with burial rated lines. the LB type electrical fitting would hide something a little easier though. I'd still want to figure out a way to blow the lines out. I could always keep a low point in the system with a landscape access hatch to drain it all out, but blowing lines out would save me from using some type of landscape access hatch where I probably don't want it.

Regarding the hose bib option, code around here I believe calls for vacuum breakers, and also frost proof. The hose bib currently there has both, so I'd just use something similar. At least that way I could always shut off the water from the outside hose bib if we're not planning on using the tiki bar for awhile. Less chance of something going wrong that way and the hose could be disconnected from the bib for blowing it out.

 

[superuser]

I would run a single cold water line out there, and install a small 120V point of use electric water heater. Less plumbing, and (a lot) less time waiting for hot water to get there from the house's water heater.

 

[LazyPoolGuy]

I would run a single cold water line out there, and install a small 120V point of use electric water heater. Less plumbing, and (a lot) less time waiting for hot water to get there from the house's water heater.

Thanks for the idea. This option crossed my mind as well as a friend's tiki bar has an electric hot water heater out of an old RV, but his is a couple hundred feet from his house. In my case, the kitchen in my house is actually further away from the hot water tank than my tiki bar will be, so I'll likely just run the two water lines out and not have to worry about an auxiliary heat source.

 

[duckcmmndr]

This is a really good idea. I like the idea of the 4 quarter turn valves to give me a port to blow out of. I'm a bit uneasy about having the "air" port inside the house in case something were ever to bump the valve and flood the basement, but in reality it will be in the ceiling over a furnace and hot water tank with little risk of that happening. It would be nice to have the hot and cold T's and valves in the 2" LB so I could have easy access from outside to both sides of lines I would be blowing out but I doubt that housing would be big enough to make that type of connection inside. If we ever sold our house, I'd have to leave some notes for the new homeowner on what to do. We've owned an RV for years, so I'm comfortable blowing lines out and using antifreeze as needed.

Do you think both PEX lines would fit in a 2"? With regard to hot and cold heat transfer to the other line in a shared conduit, at roughly a 20' PEX run, it wouldn't take long to "flush" out any "warm" water in the cold supply line after running the hot water.

I want to run another type LB for network cable, so would just be looking to limit how many I have on the side of the house.

The PEX valves are hard to turn when you are doing it on purpose, so I would not worry too much about accidental turning. If that is an issue you could have a short 3" piece of PEX on the blow out valve and add a garden hose fitting on the end with a screw on cap.



I just plumbed my pool house with PEX and two 1/2" lines will easily fit inside a 2" pvc conduit. I don't think you would notice much thermal transfer between the two plastic PEX pipes touching one another. If you are running Network cable to the tikki bar, I would use the same conduit for it too, you could have several network cables in a 2" conduit even with the two runs of PEX in there.

 

[LazyPoolGuy]

The PEX valves are hard to turn when you are doing it on purpose, so I would not worry too much about accidental turning. If that is an issue you could have a short 3" piece of PEX on the blow out valve and add a garden hose fitting on the end with a screw on cap.
View attachment 325408View attachment 325409


I just plumbed my pool house with PEX and two 1/2" lines will easily fit inside a 2" pvc conduit. I don't think you would notice much thermal transfer between the two plastic PEX pipes touching one another. If you are running Network cable to the tikki bar, I would use the same conduit for it too, you could have several network cables in a 2" conduit even with the two runs of PEX in there.

You're full of great ideas. lol I like the approach of one 2" conduit with 2 1/2" PEX and a couple network cables. Nice and tidy. Also good point about the quarter turn valves, you're right they are fairly stiff. Using the garden hose fitting and cap would also allow me to use the quick connect compressor blow-out connector too, making it pretty easy to blow out the lines.

 

[duckcmmndr]

On the valves...

You probably have this valve in mind:


But I used this sharkbite one and it takes a good bit of effort to turn:

 

[duckcmmndr]

You're full of great ideas. lol I like the approach of one 2" conduit with 2 1/2" PEX and a couple network cables. Nice and tidy. Also good point about the quarter turn valves, you're right they are fairly stiff. Using the garden hose fitting and cap would also allow me to use the quick connect compressor blow-out connector too, making it pretty easy to blow out the lines.

Thanks....I like the idea of the blow out quick connects...I may have to add that to my pool house blow out valves. Right now I just have a short piece of PEX crimped onto it and use a blow nozzle on the air hose.

 

[LazyPoolGuy]

On the valves...

You probably have this valve in mind:
View attachment 325419

But I used this sharkbite one and it takes a good bit of effort to turn:
View attachment 325420

I have that sharkbite style of quarter turn valve on my current hose bibs, so I'd just use the same.

One more question, I assume you use an PEX elbow fitting in the LB conduit? (thinking 1/2" PEX doesn't have that kind of bend radius)

 

[duckcmmndr]

I have that sharkbite style of quarter turn valve on my current hose bibs, so I'd just use the same.

One more question, I assume you use an PEX elbow fitting in the LB conduit? (thinking 1/2" PEX doesn't have that kind of bend radius)

Yes, it does bend pretty good...but not that much. If you can go straight into the LB from inside you will just need one 90 on each line. If you have to come up/down a wall before going into the LB...you will likely need two 90's per line. I would not worry about the 90's at all....PEX crimped fittings just flat do not ever leak. If you get a plumber to do it...they should not have any trouble.

Make sure you use the 2" radius 90's on the conduit so the pex will go through there easy. Depending on how deep you bury it...they make a long radius 90 that would work even better...but you would have to bury it 2' or more to use those. I don't see any issues using the standard radius 90, especially if you use some cable lube as you are pusing the pipes and network cables through.

 

[jamjam]

FYI - there is PEX rated for direct burial (it just needed to be shielded above ground)