New vinyl liner floating

[Endless Summer]

We are renting a house that has a 36,000 gallon vinyl liner pool. The liner was replaced by a professional pool company and shortly after the liner started to float pretty bad after hard rains (I’m assuming due to groundwater).
I’m wondering if the pool company has any liability with this (would there be any type of warranty), or does this fall completely on the owner who failed to install a sump pump, etc?

 

[ajw22]

I don't think the pool company that installed the liner had anyway of knowing what the water situation around the pool was unless it had been discussed with them and fixing it was part of the scope of work. If it is a surprise to the house owner then the pool company has no liability.

 

[zea3]

I would find out if there is a well point nearby that they shut off during the installation, or that requires a drop in pump during rainy weather. How long have you been in the house?

 

[Endless Summer]

We moved in a little over a year. The new liner was in stalled shortly after we moved in and it started to float a few months after the install. It has floated about 4-5 times since then.

 

[Endless Summer]

I don't think the pool company that installed the liner had anyway of knowing what the water situation around the pool was unless it had been discussed with them and fixing it was part of the scope of work. If it is a surprise to the house owner then the pool company has no liability.

The owner knew about it since he told me it happened with the old liner. The pool company did attempt to seal the cracks in the cement.
Wondering if sealing cracks is a solution to preventing ground water from getting in, or is a sump pump always needed?

 

[ajw22]

The owner knew about it since he told me it happened with the old liner. The pool company did attempt to seal the cracks in the cement.
Wondering if sealing cracks is a solution to preventing ground water from getting in, or is a sump pump always needed?

It takes well points and sump pumps to control ground water.

 

[Endless Summer]

I am renting a home that has a 36,000 gallon vinyl liner pool. The liner was replaced around a year ago by the owner. Just around a month later, the liner started to float quite significantly after rains and subsequently left very large creases. I informed the owner, but his reaction was “bummer”. The liner floated quite significantly around 4 to 5 times this past year, and a section of the liner bead came out of the track a couple months ago. A few weeks back the liner floated very significantly. I informed the owner again, and he stated he would have a pool guy come re-seat the liner in the track when it warms up, but only said “dang” regarding the floated liner

Unfortunately, my dog was able to get at the floated liner and tore off the corner of it. The liner is now unrepairable and needs to be replaced, and renters insurance does not cover it. I spoke with the owner, and he stated that the liner floated with the previous liners and that he was unwilling to install a sump pump due to the expense.

Since I am unfamiliar with the Industry standards with vinyl liner pools, I am unsure if I have 100% liability for this, since I informed him many times and my dog wouldn’t have been able to do any damage without a floated liner/unseated bead?

Appreciate any advice!

 

[zea3]

It is unfortunate that the owner is unwilling to do what is necessary for this pool to operate properly. At this point you are in the territory of lawyers when it comes to determining who is responsible for the damage to the pool. The landlord could well say you did not do due diligence to prevent your dog from damaging the pool, while your point is that if the landlord had put in a means to mitigate ground water the liner would not be in a state where the dog could damage it.

If you rented this house specifically because it had a pool, and if you are paying a premium on the rent because there is a pool, then I'm afraid my advice would be to consult a lawyer to see what your rights and responsibilities are in this matter. This is also the full extent of legal advice TFP is able to offer, since we are not lawyers ourselves. I'm sorry you have to deal with this and I hope you and the landlord can come to a mutually acceptable agreement.

I wonder how many liners this guy has blown through because he doesn't want to pay a little more to mitigate the groundwater problem. Liners aren't cheap, and at the moment getting new ones is more difficult due to covid.

 

[Endless Summer]

It is unfortunate that the owner is unwilling to do what is necessary for this pool to operate properly. At this point you are in the territory of lawyers when it comes to determining who is responsible for the damage to the pool. The landlord could well say you did not do due diligence to prevent your dog from damaging the pool, while your point is that if the landlord had put in a means to mitigate ground water the liner would not be in a state where the dog could damage it.

If you rented this house specifically because it had a pool, and if you are paying a premium on the rent because there is a pool, then I'm afraid my advice would be to consult a lawyer to see what your rights and responsibilities are in this matter. This is also the full extent of legal advice TFP is able to offer, since we are not lawyers ourselves. I'm sorry you have to deal with this and I hope you and the landlord can come to a mutually acceptable agreement.

I wonder how many liners this guy has blown through because he doesn't want to pay a little more to mitigate the groundwater problem. Liners aren't cheap, and at the moment getting new ones is more difficult due to covid.

Appreciate the advice.
The owner has told me that the cost to put in a sump pump would exceed the cost of the pool. I’m not sure where he is getting his information, but I don’t see how that can be true.
Any idea what the least expensive option would be to help prevent the liner from floating and what an average price range would be?

 

[zea3]

I don't know serious the ground water problem is, cheapest option is adding a french drain to divert water flow away from the pool, if it only occurs after prolonged, heavy rains. If it happens regularly then a wellpoint is the correct fix. Here is some basic info on wellpoints from How and When to Install Wellpoints - Pool Operator Talk News🗞

The Closer, The Better​

Brian suggests, “Dig the hole as close to the pool as possible, just beyond the concrete decking.” After the hole is dug, gravel is put in 1-2 feet deeper than the deepest level of the pool. The 12” PVC pipe is inserted vertically. Dirt can be filled in at this point. “I like to install a discharge pipe close to the top of the discharge pipe. This allows a place to discharge the water to a desirable location and keep everything concealed” is Brian’s expert advice.


Brian uses a sump pump with an automatic, internal sensor so that it can be plugged in at all times. Many people will opt to have a weatherproof outlet installed near the wellpoint system to plug the pump into without the need for an extension cord.” Finally, a slip-on cap is installed. Brian suggests drilling a couple of holes in the cap and bolting the handle on.

 

[Mdragger88]

I agree with Zea - you likely pay a premium rent for a house with a functional pool. I would at the very least be asking for a discounted rent comparable to a house with no pool when this happens. Sometimes that’s the only way landlords will fix recurring problems. An attorney in your area can help you navigate your rights etc. Definitely document everything w/ pics, texts, emails etc along the way.
It looks like with the amount of creases, lifting & ground water that liner may be toast anyway whether or not your dog chewed on the corner. If you really like the house & want to remain there maybe get a few quotes/opinions for the liner & well/drainage & pass them along to him.

 

[JamesW]

The owner has told me that the cost to put in a sump pump would exceed the cost of the pool.

That's ridiculous. It's a hole, some pipe and a submersible pump.

If the liner is not stable without the groundwater control, then it needs to be installed.

The owner is responsible for making sure that everything on the property is in good working condition. This is not good working condition.

The cost really shouldn't be that much.

You can get some estimates from local contractors to do the work.

This is just my opinion and not legal or professional advice.

 

[Orion7319]

I had no idea a vinyl pool could do that. As far as your dog tearing up the liner after the landlord didn’t repair it, if it were me I would have simply told him “bummer”....

 

[JamesW]

Normally, damage done by a dog is the responsibility of the dog's owner.

However, the liability is mitigated by the fact that the landlord is negligent in their duty to maintain the property in good working condition.

Assigning liability is going to be a matter of opinion where different people will have different opinions.

Legally, if it went before a judge, the judge could rule either way.

If you can't figure out a solution between the parties, maybe involve a mediator.

Again, just my opinion and not legal or professional advice.

 

[Auburn02]

I had no idea a vinyl pool could do that. As far as your dog tearing up the liner after the landlord didn’t repair it, if it were me I would have simply told him “bummer”....

Ha, beat me to it but my suggestion was going to be to inform the landlord you will be moving out and ceasing any further payments. When he or she tries to tell you that you are bound by a lease, tell them "bummer" or "dang."

 

[ajw22]

Really depends how long you intend to stay there and if you want to go to battle with your landlord. Long term it pays to not stir things up with the landlord.

 

[JamesW]

The owner knew about it since he told me it happened with the old liner. The pool company did attempt to seal the cracks in the cement.
Wondering if sealing cracks is a solution to preventing ground water from getting in, or is a sump pump always needed?

If the pool company knew about the water issue, they should have recommended that something needed to be done to control the ground water to prevent the liner from floating.

If they recommended something and the owner declined to address the issue, there's not much the pool company can do.

 

[duade]

What does the lease say about the pool and its functionality? Or is there a lease rider discussing the pool and its terms of use?

 

[JamesW]