New Build in Central Texas - Patio Build Out

[Texas Splash]

@Bama Rambler or @Teald024, can you help us a bit with the Stenner question above in post # 16?

Also see:

Stenner liquid chlorine pump - How to choose and install

CHLORINE (LIQUID CHLORINE OR BLEACH) INJECTION SYSTEM Overall comment: if you can use a salt water generator (SWG), you should. Bleach is harder to do. Do you really want to use bleach? Will a SWG (generates bleach in the pool) work for you? If you have a variable speed (VS) pump, then...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Stoopalini]

Yeah, a couple of us stepped on each other's toes. Let's just leave it for now. If you don't get any bites on that specific question, maybe we'll try something else later. I know you're on limited time with the build and all.

Sure thing, no worries. Thanks for the help

 

[Newdude]

Our coping is Oklahoma flagstone, which is very common around here. I’ve only had erosion from the salt water in a couple of places:

The salt will rust any nearby metal, though. I have to treat and repaint the base of my diving board every 2-3 years.

Both of these are well proven to not be the salts fault. Soft stones and inferior or improperly coated metals are damaged by moisture.

 

[Stoopalini]

Both of these are well proven to not be the salts fault. Soft stones and inferior or improperly coated metals are damaged by moisture.

An SWG is really what we want, but are concerned about all the warnings we’ve received about using one with all the natural stone that’ll be around our pool.

I thought about having the PB install a IC40 dummy bypass (https://www.amazon.com/Pentair-5205...tomation/dp/B004VU8A1Q/ref=asc_df_B004VU8A1Q/) on the outlet of the chlorinator, and then adding salt to the pool while we use pucks during the stabilization period. Then if we don’t see any adverse effects, it’ll be easy enough to swap in an IC40.

If we did see adverse affects, then I could drain and refill.

would there be any issues with the salt PPM being high enough for the SWG, but using the pucks from the PB during the first month or 2?

 

[Newdude]

An SWG is really what we want, but are concerned about all the warnings we’ve received about using one with all the natural stone that’ll be around our pool

Soft stone will weather no matter what. Its generally cheaper than the harder stones or name brand 'pavers' because its easier to cut/manufacture. The harder the stone the more durable it is. Sometimes the owner skimps to keep the overall cost down. Sometimes the builder sneaks in lesser quality material. Either way the salt gets unfairly blamed.

would there be any issues with the salt PPM being high enough for the SWG, but using the pucks from the PB during the first month or 2?

No problems at all. Many people add salt to their pools just for the feel. And if you had LC going for a while, the normal chemical breakdown would leave you with half the salt of a salt pool anyway. In a 'non salt' pool. Having them install the dummy cell is an absolute no brainer. Have them setup electric for it also. It will cost pennies now and hundreds later.

 

[Stoopalini]

Have them setup electric for it also. It will cost pennies now and hundreds later.

Do you mean the transformer and wiring for it? I’ll be getting the EasyTouch system without the IC transformer, so I figured I would just have to add the transformer and wire it in.
Is there more to it than that?

 

[Newdude]

Do you mean the transformer and wiring for it? I’ll be getting the EasyTouch system without the IC transformer, so I figured I would just have to add the transformer and wire it in.

Thats exactly what I meant and I missed that part of getting the automation. My bad. You won't need the controller wired up then. Just have them install the dummy cell.

 

[Stoopalini]

Thats exactly what I meant and I missed that part of getting the automation. My bad. You won't need the controller wired up then. Just have them install the dummy cell.

Ya thanks. The stone I'm talking about is for our waterfall and boulder coping. The PB calls it "Moss Rock". Here's a pic of one of their demo pools which uses it.



I don't know how hard it is, or if it'll be a problem with salt or without; We are just weary of taking the risk. Our house is also made from Texas limestone, and I was concerned the salt may cause a problem there. I understand what you mean when you say it's not the salt, but is simpy water and soft rock. It's just hard to know who to believe, as others have said they switched from SWG to LQ, and the deterioration of their softer stone stopped after switching.

Here's a pic of the back of the house, after I demo'ed the deck. That white limestone is pretty soft, in that if you just rub your hand on it, it'll turn it white.



I did just order the dummy cell, so will have it on hand for the PB to install. If we decide to go with LQ, then at least I have a good point to put the nozzles for the injection. If we decide to go with SWG, it'll be as easy as swapping it out.

 

[Texas Splash]

I think having the dummy cell on-hand is a smart move. It took me seven years before finally installing my SWG.

 

[Stoopalini]

I think having the dummy cell on-hand is a smart move. It took me seven years before finally installing my SWG.

ya, at this stage, I figure a $50 investment for the dummy cell is well worth it.

I figure I can add ~3000ppm salt while I use pucks with the chlorinator and the plaster is curing and the water is stabilizing. Then if I see any deterioration in the stone, I can drain and refill and have saved the $700-$900 of the SWG. Then I would setup LC injection on the dummy cell directly. If we don’t see any deterioration issues, then I can easily install the SWG.

 

[NCMike]

To give salt water a fair comparison, why not run the pool with LC for a season first. Then you can note any deterioration just from "normal" pool water on the rocks/coping. From my reading on these forums it seems the consensus is that soft rocks will degrade/deteriorate no mater what kind of water they are in contact with. Id hate for you to add salt to the pool first thing and be under the impression that the salt was your problem when its actually just the nature of softer rocks and pools. You would then miss out on all the positives of a SWG for years to come. Good Luck!

 

[Newdude]

Id hate for you to add salt to the pool first thing and be under the impression that the salt was your problem when its actually just the nature of softer rocks and pools

+1 , *AND* have the added expense and headache of a drain/refill. Chlorine and Borax/Baking soda are all dirt cheap, but CYA and Calcium are expensive regardless of water type.

To top that off, it’s just by nature (no pun intended) going to be difficult to prove either way. You can stay on LC for a year and switch after no erosion is noted. If you have problems after that it could simply be from 2 years of moisture and still not be the salts fault, But if course the salt would be blamed.

Maybe the only way to know for sure is to use LC until you notice any weathering. At that point it’s guaranteed the stone so you can sleep well at night after switching to salt.

 

[jark87]

Just in case my comments were interpreted as being anti-SWCG, that’s not the case at all. Based on the virtually maintenance-free chlorine generation, I wouldn’t go any other route. And that’s after 13 years. We also love the “feel” of the water. Very different from non-salt pools, even when they are properly balanced.

 

[Stoopalini]

To give salt water a fair comparison, why not run the pool with LC for a season first. Then you can note any deterioration just from "normal" pool water on the rocks/coping. From my reading on these forums it seems the consensus is that soft rocks will degrade/deteriorate no mater what kind of water they are in contact with. Id hate for you to add salt to the pool first thing and be under the impression that the salt was your problem when its actually just the nature of softer rocks and pools. You would then miss out on all the positives of a SWG for years to come. Good Luck!

Makes sense, although my goal here was to limit the daily attention needed. If I were to go LC, I'd want the Stenner (or Liquidator) to automate it ... but would be wasted $$ if I did that, then switched to SWG.

It sounds to me like the arguments on both side are anecdotal. No proof the salt does damage, but no proof it doesn't either.

 

[Stoopalini]

When we got home from church today, the excavation guy was back out here working, along with his boss. They were just cleaning up the hole a bit; probably to ensure the PB didn't call them back out for anything.

It looks like ground water is seeping in on the deep end. I assume this isn't an issue for when the rebar and gunite go in? That's it's common, and the PB has a way to deal with it?

The PB says he'll be out tomorrow to inspect the excavation, and is planning for rebar and plumbing to start this week.

 

[Stoopalini]

I met with my construction manager yesterday, as he came out to inspect the excavation. Everything looks good, and rebar/plumbing is set to start tomorrow.

In talking with him, I asked if he would install an auto fill if I bought it myself and provided it to them ... and he said no problem at all, so long as I have the materials on hand by the end of the week. So I ordered some parts from Amazon, and also picked a few things up at Lowes yesterday.

I also started a thread in the plumbing section, to make sure I have everything I need on hand ... but am not getting any engagement on that thread. I don't mean to cross post here, but hoping to get input today so I can purchase anything I'm missing this afternoon and have it on hand when plumbing starts tomorrow.

I believe a proper install would consist of: Tapping into a water source -> Cutoff valve -> PRV to ensure water pressure stays in spec of the Paralevel -> Backflow preventer -> Paralevel.

My water softener loop passes right by my equipment pad, so I'm thinking to install the items listed above right next to the pad.

Overview of area:



Zoom in on what I'm talking about:


My plan is to put the cutoff and PRV under an irrigation box, and have the backflow preventer above ground, behind the irrigation box, against the house.

Is there anything I'm missing here, for the crew to be able to install the auto fill properly?

 

[Texas Splash]

Let's try to get you some movement.

 

[Stoopalini]

Let's try to get you some movement.

Thanks, I appreciate that

 

[Ourad]

Not a total waste if you start with a Stenner and end up switching to SWCG. Just convert the Stenner to acid.

 

[Stenner Tech Support]

Hi,

The Stenner Classic pumps can be used with any tube for the desired output. If you have further questions, contact us here.
We are attaching the manual along with the Basic service Manual.