Pool Pump Wizard needed

[RobertFlagg]

Hello all,
I Love that I finally found this site. I have been looking everywhere for some direction. I'm starting a pool build and am trying to get all the equipment that will make it all work. I have a gunite rectangle 16' x 32', 3.5'-7' deep pool with a 16' x 9' cabo shelf.
Plumbing Layout all 2" pipe
- 2 x Skimmers
- 1 Main Drain
To - Pentair IntelliFlo VF Variable Speed Pump
To - Pentair System 2 DE Filter PLDE48 with Backwash valve
To - Solar Heating panels at 15'
To - IntelliChlor Chlorine Generator - IC40
To - 3 x 24" waterfalls & 3 Deck Jets & 4 bubblers in the shelf
To - Pool Returns and at least two near Cabo Shelf to keep the debris off

No Heater or Spa

So the question I have is can this be done with the single pump or do I need another one for the water features. I understand that if I have the water features running the pool returns are going to suffer with alot of pressure lost. For typical cleaning cycles, I don't have to use all the water features. Any input and or wisdom would be greatly appreciated. If there was a similar question please direct me with the tread. Thanks

 

[Jimrahbe]

Robert,

We never recommend a VF pump... Before the VSF pump we only recommended the VS because it is simpler and in general there is no real "need" for a VF pump.

So I suggest that you buy the 011028, which is a VS pump.. If you just want to spend more money, get the VSF combination pump..

Technically, you can not have a single main drain, but it just depends on how you look at it.. In the floor of the pool there has to be two drains tied together so that if one is blocked the other will work. It is a safety feature that is required on all new pools.. Both drains are connected to a single pipe going back to the pump.

DE filter are kind of old school.. They work very well but are just a pain in the rear... I suggest a large cartridge filter.. no multiport/backwash valve to go bad and the plumbing is much simpler. Clean it once or twice a year and you are done. Cartridges should last 8 to 10 years..

I am a highly biased Pentair kind of guy, but even I would not use an IC40 unless it was connected to a Pentair automation system. You need something to coordinate the operation of the VS pump and the IC40 to make the Pentair salt system provide the feedback and operation that most people want.

Water features are noisy and highly over rated, be careful what you wish for.. If you really plan to run them a lot, you should have a waterfall pump just for them.

The whole purpose of a VS pump is to reduce your electrical bill.. If you plan to use it for the water features, you really don't need a VS pump as it will have to run at full speed to feed all the features you want.. I am not sure that it can even do that by itself.

You want the VS pump, because you will need to run the pump longer so that the SWCG has the time it needs to make the amount of chlorine you will need.

How do you plan to turn all the valves on/off that your water features will require?

Let's see what our other members have to say...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[RobertFlagg]

Jim,
Wow, Thank you for all this information. Looks like i need to go back to the drawing board. Lets just say I talk the wife into not having water features(more work for me anyways). Just a simple pool with good large cartridge filter, how would you build it, being a Pentair type of guy?
- Pump 011028 vs?
- Filter , Clean and Clear RP Model? Size?
- Salt Generator?

 

[JamesW]

IntelliCenter® Pool Control System

The IntelliCenter Pool Automation system works with the Pentair Pool app to put total pool control right in the palm of your hand.

www.pentair.com

I would suggest the Intellicenter with integrated SWG and load center (subpanel).

I think that the Intelliflo VS is good for everything. Just close the returns while running the features. No need to have returns active. The water is returning to the pool in any case.

Get a good robot cleaner.

Get the IC40 cell.

Get a 420 sqft cartridge filter.

I would suggest going bigger than 16 x 32. At least 18 x 36 or 20 x 40 if you have the room.

Main drains have to be two tied together unless you get a single main drain that is certified as "unblockable".

I would use 2.5" pvc from each skimmer to the equipment pad and a 2.5" pvc line from the main drains to the equipment pad.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Robert.

JamesW pretty much nailed the equipment I would use. (Easy to spend your money.. )

By installing the IntelliCenter, the IntelliFlo VS, and IC-40 SWCG together, you can control things and see what is operating via your PC, or phone, or tablet. You can also turn things on and off and change valve position automatically.

As an example.. I have a small waterfall.. I don't use it much anymore, but I run water through it every day to keep the pipes chlorinated.. At 9am my EasyTouch automation (an older version of the IntelliCenter) tells the pump to increase speed to 2800 RPM as that is what it takes to run the waterfall, and at the same time tells a valve to rotate redirecting the return water to the waterfall.. It runs for 15 minutes and then everything goes back to where it was before.

Another example... I can see on my PC the salt level of the water in the pool and what percentage I am running by SWCG.. If I need to increase the chlorine, I can just do it by hitting an up icon..

No one "needs" an automation system, but I love mine and I have a very simple pool

Although JamesW has forgotten more about pools than I will ever know, based just upon running my IntelliFlo, I think it would be hard pressed to drive 3 ea 24" waterfalls plus 3 deck jets, plus 4 bubblers all at the same time... It would have no problem doing them one at a time...

I am not trying to talk you out of water features, I just want to make sure you have thought things through before investing in something that you might not use very often. In my case the fun of the waterfall wore out after the first season.. Keep in mind also that to remotely turn water features on and off, you will need Jandy valves and valve actuators... Most automation systems can only control two actuators (Not counting the two the must be used when switching between the pool and spa) To control more than two valves you will have to install additional cards in your automation system. It really depends on if you are building a pool to show off to your friends or to swim in..

Do you intend to build your own pool, or have one built?

Good luck with your pool build,

Jim R.

 

[JamesW]

The Intelliflo should be able to run all features at the same time as long as the returns are closed and the suction lines are all sized correctly.

You don't have to run all 3 at the same time.

Just pick one or two and go with that.

Maybe go with the IntelliFlo XF for slightly better performance.

The solar might be a complication if the solar flow rate requirements don't match the feature requirements.

You're going to have to check the installation manuals for all equipment to find out the flow requirements.

The Intelliflo xf can get up to about 200 gpm at full speed, which is more than enough for all features. But, you really don't want to try to run anywhere near that flow rate.

The sheers require about 12 gpm per linear foot assuming a 3 foot elevation above the water and a 15" projection.

That's about 72 gpm, which is well within the operating ability of the pump.

Deck jets don't require very much flow.

Bubblers depend on the specifics.

I would say that the sheers and deck jets are within the capability of the pump without going anywhere near full speed.

 

[JamesW]

You need to know the flow rate intended for each pipe. For suction, you want to keep the water velocity below 6 ft/sec. For returns, you want to keep the water velocity below 8 ft/sec.

Size.......6 ft/sec......8 ft/sec
2"..............63...............84 gpm
2.5............90.............119 gpm
3.0".........138.............184 gpm

Assuming 3 suction lines at 2.5" each, the suction could handle the full flow capability of the pump.

Each sheer should be plumbed separately on its own line and valve so that you can balance the flow equally.

In addition, you could run one, two or three if you wanted.

You might choose to run just the center one or maybe the two outer ones.

 

[RobertFlagg]

Robert.

JamesW pretty much nailed the equipment I would use. (Easy to spend your money.. )

By installing the IntelliCenter, the IntelliFlo VS, and IC-40 SWCG together, you can control things and see what is operating via your PC, or phone, or tablet. You can also turn things on and off and change valve position automatically.

As an example.. I have a small waterfall.. I don't use it much anymore, but I run water through it every day to keep the pipes chlorinated.. At 9am my EasyTouch automation (an older version of the IntelliCenter) tells the pump to increase speed to 2800 RPM as that is what it takes to run the waterfall, and at the same time tells a valve to rotate redirecting the return water to the waterfall.. It runs for 15 minutes and then everything goes back to where it was before.

Another example... I can see on my PC the salt level of the water in the pool and what percentage I am running by SWCG.. If I need to increase the chlorine, I can just do it by hitting an up icon..

No one "needs" an automation system, but I love mine and I have a very simple pool

Although JamesW has forgotten more about pools than I will ever know, based just upon running my IntelliFlo, I think it would be hard pressed to drive 3 ea 24" waterfalls plus 3 deck jets, plus 4 bubblers all at the same time... It would have no problem doing them one at a time...

I am not trying to talk you out of water features, I just want to make sure you have thought things through before investing in something that you might not use very often. In my case the fun of the waterfall wore out after the first season.. Keep in mind also that to remotely turn water features on and off, you will need Jandy valves and valve actuators... Most automation systems can only control two actuators (Not counting the two the must be used when switching between the pool and spa) To control more than two valves you will have to install additional cards in your automation system. It really depends on if you are building a pool to show off to your friends or to swim in..

Do you intend to build your own pool, or have one built?

Good luck with your pool build,

Jim R.

I am planning to do as much work as I can do. I will hire out the other work. Thank you for the additional info. I do like the ability to play with all the pool stuff on my phone or PC.

You need to know the flow rate intended for each pipe. For suction, you want to keep the water velocity below 6 ft/sec. For returns, you want to keep the water velocity below 8 ft/sec.

Size.......6 ft/sec......8 ft/sec
2"..............63...............84 gpm
2.5............90.............119 gpm
3.0".........138.............184 gpm

Assuming 3 suction lines at 2.5" each, the suction could handle the full flow capability of the pump.

Each sheer should be plumbed separately on its own line and valve so that you can balance the flow equally.

In addition, you could run one, two or three if you wanted.

You might choose to run just the center one or maybe the two outer ones.

James, thank you for all the info as well. All this number help me tremendously in calculating what is needed I like the idea of running the larger 2.5" pipe from the suction side pool to the pump. I'm trying to design the pad to use the least about of 90's and the most efficient way to plumb everything without causing to much friction loss. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[johig]

I agree with others that automation and app control is extremely useful. I have a pretty simple pool and spa setup that is all Pentair (see my signature). No water features - just a spillover from the spa. My control system is EasyTouch with ScreenLogic. The ability to change schedules on the fly and adjust the SWG output is very practical - way beyond a toy or gimmick in my opinion. Tweaking stuff from the deck where I test my chemical levels is very convenient. No running back and forth to the equipment pad. You can also control remotely (e.g. set spa to heat up before getting home) and use auxiliary circuits to control lighting or pretty much any electrical device you can think of. Mine controls valves, pump speed, SWG, spa light, pool lights, (including color of LED lights) and rear yard landscape lighting. The ability to check water temperature and various historical data are also nice features that I didn’t even think of before the build.

 

[YonnyPiscinas]

You guys are so lucky to have so many products on the market.
We don't even have 2 speed pumps here.

I've set up some basic controls with TH16 sonoff and temperature probes, one in the pool and one on the roof. Simply controls the pump, garden lights and easy to see the temps from my phone.

 

[RobertFlagg]

What are your guys thoughts on CMP 25503-000-000 pool bubblers? 4 installed on a looped plumbing scheme? any one better? add a air pump for them?

Another question, how many pool returns? thinking one for the cabo to keep it clear of debris and two more for the pool itself?

 

[JamesW]

I'm not a big fan of bubblers.

For the shelf, I would just use a wide nylon brush to periodically brush it off. You need to brush the plaster regularly anyway

For returns, I would suggest two independent returns that split into two for a total of 4 wall returns.