Hello, I have had our silver travertine decking installed for approximately three months or less. Recently we have noticed multiple travertine tiles sinking lower, causing lips in the decking, as well as corners breaking or chipping off. We've also noticed that grass is staring to grow through the travertine tiles where the sand grout typically is. Is this a normal occurrence or was something not installed correctly? I have attached photos for you to preview. Thank you for your feedback in advance. Grass growing through travertine
Grass starting to grow through travertine where sand is between tiles. Also, multiple travertine tiles sinking at the corners causing lips.
- Thread starter jsradcliffe
- Start date
- Jul 21, 2013
- 53,075
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
It sounds like the base was not properly compacted and is now dropping or is being undermined.
Was “sanded grout” used or “polymeric sand” used?
Was “sanded grout” used or “polymeric sand” used?
IMO this should not be happening (especially after only 3 months). Did they lay enough of a crushed stone base? Did they put down gardening cloth to prevent weeds/grass?
Those are tough pavers to install correctly. Proper prep is critical and this prep can change with different environments and soil conditions. For me, one of the biggest benefits of pavers is there ability to move slightly with a slight amount of ground movement. Those style pavers are set so tight you really give up that benefit because any type of shift will be amplified. The pictures do not make it clear how much settling has occurred but cracked and broken corners are unacceptable in that recent of a install. I would definitely have the installer back to take a look. It does appear you need another application of poly sand (hopefully this is what they used). That will help with the grass growing. Did you just do some re-seeding? It could just be a few seeds that caught just right in the pavers but typically you should not have grass growing in a properly installed patio using polymeric sand.
Ask the installer the exact process used for the base prep.
Ask the installer the exact process used for the base prep.
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Hey Rich,
I believe it was “sanded grout” because a lot of the sand is now washed away from the rain and will need to be regrouted. We have bullnose travertine around the pull and "polymeric sand" was used, I believe. Here is a link with a few more photos.
Hey, thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it. I don't believe they put down enough stone base. It was almost all sand. I know they did not put down gardening cloth. They put the sand and maybe a little stone base down before that on top of the original soil. Here are some pictures of the travertine being installed.
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Here are some photos of the install for you to take a look at. No reseeding. I also thought the cracks and chips were not ok this early. Thanks again for your professional opinion. I really appreciate it.
Do you have alot of ants ? I originally thought my tiles were sinking as well but it was the ants removing the levelling sand and seam sand one grain at a time. My whole patio sunk slowly at different spots until it was all flat on the crushed concrete base. I pulled one side out and re-leveled it with paving sand and it only lasted one season. At some point i will have somebody come and redo it all with cement underneath to make the 3/4 inch back up.
No, not a lot of ants. Not enough to cause the multiple areas of dropping in corners, etc. Something tells me it was a poor install.
I was told by a guy who installed this for years that Travertine is only a 1" paver and should be installed on a concrete base with a thinset or sand+concrete dry mix between slab and stone.
Yes you need a deeper more compacted base, if not set on concrete. Especially with the sandy soil and based on your house and your neighbors you are in a somewhat marshy area of charleston subject to flooding. I would ask them to come back and put cement down. Depending on who your installer was they might not be willing to do so, but concrete should cost about 4-6 a square foot at 4 inches deep and then the travertine can be reset on top with grout and mortar.
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Thanks for replies to my post. I very much appreciate all of them. New photos for your review. I have attached more pictures for y'all to review. So, it appears the PB did not put down enough compact base but put down plenty of sand. This travertine decking has only been down approximately three months and now we are noticings the travertine sinking in areas, gapping, sand grout completely gone. Now were are noticing disintegration and chipping. Is this normal for silver travertine? I understand it is a course stone, but at this rate of disintegration and chipping it will need to be replaced in a few years. I don't understand why all this is happening so fast. I am also dealing with an imperfection on the bottom step from when they shot the pool with luna quartz. The PB acts as if the imperfection is not a big deal, but I believe it is. What are your thoughts?
Sorry you have to deal with all this. We thought we knew going in how big of a project it all was, and we thought we were prepared for setbacks, but it was still kinda a shock when things went wrong. I had a great PB and great patio guys but we still got our fair share of issues. We had wrongfully assumed that the price of all the work alone shielded us from ground settling, ****** electricians and weather delays. Its a project and when you are living at the job site watching it all unfold in real time, it gets overwhelming at times. But you'll get there and one day you'll laugh more than you want to cry at all the setbacks. Keep on top of everything the best you can and stay firm yet polite that things need fixing.
very nice choice on the travertine. we are going with the same thing. sorry for your issues.
how much did they compact the ground?
how much did they compact the ground?
I have silver travertine placed over concrete and do not have any issues, it has been installed for about 8 months. My neighbor who has rainbow over a crushed base for the same period has had people out 4 times to reset and I live in an area with hard clay.
Did they run into any ground water during the dig for the pool? just curious.
Any issue you have that is not up to your standards should be corrected. Especially if it is visible to your eye and to others that dont look at it every day. You will have to push the builder to correct it. One more question, what is the warranty on your pavers, some builders offer 1 year and even suggest they will come out after the ground has more time to settle and complete a reset. The bigger concern to me is the cracking at the corners where the tile needs to be fully replaced.
Are there any extra tiles that that have left for you to complete repairs with?
Did they run into any ground water during the dig for the pool? just curious.
Any issue you have that is not up to your standards should be corrected. Especially if it is visible to your eye and to others that dont look at it every day. You will have to push the builder to correct it. One more question, what is the warranty on your pavers, some builders offer 1 year and even suggest they will come out after the ground has more time to settle and complete a reset. The bigger concern to me is the cracking at the corners where the tile needs to be fully replaced.
Are there any extra tiles that that have left for you to complete repairs with?
- Jul 21, 2013
- 53,075
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Sure sounds like they put sand and not "sand grout" between the tiles. Sand grout is mixed with water and hardens. It does not wash out.
sktn77a
Gold Supporter
Always difficult to say when just looking at pictures, however this is what I see (or don't see) in the pictures.
There is no sign of a compactor or even compactor marks to compact the sub base.
It appears the area was just rough graded and then sand was used to bring it all the way up to bottom of the pavers. This is not acceptable for any paver installation. The subgrade should be bought up with a good quality gravel and compacted, then only approximately 1 inch of sand should be used for bedding purposes. And as noted above the best installation for these particular pavers is a concrete slab underneath.
The coping pieces are overhanging the pool beam on the back. This is not a good idea and if you get any frost at all it is then a terrible and unacceptable idea.
Do you have any pics of the pool before it was backfilled?
How deep were the fills and did they do any type of compaction when backfilling?
There is no sign of a compactor or even compactor marks to compact the sub base.
It appears the area was just rough graded and then sand was used to bring it all the way up to bottom of the pavers. This is not acceptable for any paver installation. The subgrade should be bought up with a good quality gravel and compacted, then only approximately 1 inch of sand should be used for bedding purposes. And as noted above the best installation for these particular pavers is a concrete slab underneath.
The coping pieces are overhanging the pool beam on the back. This is not a good idea and if you get any frost at all it is then a terrible and unacceptable idea.
Do you have any pics of the pool before it was backfilled?
How deep were the fills and did they do any type of compaction when backfilling?
Thanks, Rich. Here is what I have before they started the travertine installation. You are right, there was never a compactor here. They used a roller that was pushed, I believe. Here are some more photos