Feeling slight electrical current in pool...bonding seems intact. Thoughts?

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R

rawb

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May 3, 2017
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Lexington, SC
Here's a brief rundown of the details. I am feeling a slight electrical current while in and around the pool, especially on sensitive areas of my skin such as little cuts, scrapes, etc. The pool is new as of this year. The pool walls are polymer (not steel). They ran the ground wire around the entire pool which was connected to both rails by the steps and ladder, then to a metal post that was driven into the ground by the equipment pad (I think this is called bonding). So that would seem to not be the issue. I have sat on the edge of the concrete decking while I'm completely dry, dipped my foot into the pool and felt nothing. I then got into the pool for a minute and got myself wet, went back to the same location where I was sitting just before that, dipped my foot in and felt a slight current. I can only guess that being wet was the difference there. I can also stand in the pool starting at the shallow end by the stairs, splash water up onto the pool deck, work my way down the edge of the pool deck (which is concrete) and as I'm touching it, I can feel the slight tinge of electrical current. It may or may not be relevant, but the area of the pool deck I'm touching during this test is just about where I recall them running that ground wire under the concrete. I do not, however, feel any sensation of electrical current when I grab the rails at the steps or the ladder. The only other thing I will add, not knowing if it's even related or not, is the fact that after my pool was built, both my 220 breaker to the equipment pad and my 110 breaker to the pool light were tripping fairly often and seemingly after a rain. It didn't happen every single time it rained but rain seemed to be a possible common denominator. The pool's electrical company came out about a month ago and replaced both breakers as well as check the wiring which they said looked ok. They could not, of course, check every inch of the wiring to the light for example since the concrete deck was poured over a lot of those areas. I have had both the 220 and 110 breakers (the new ones) trip at the same time one time since they switched them out for whatever mysterious reason...but only once. I have never had the light on any of the times where I've felt the sensation so I wouldn't even think there would be power getting to the light in the pool. The switch for the light is up on the deck of my house. The guys from the pool company came out today and were not able to duplicate the issue, which was discouraging. He got in the pool, touched the concrete deck as I had done, etc. but said he felt nothing.

I thought I'd at least post it here and see if by chance anyone had experienced anything similar or had any suggestions on where to go from here. The pool guys wondered if the SWG could be causing it. Seems far-fetched to me but I think he was just trying to think of any and all ways electrical current could even be coming in contact with the water and since the SWG is electrical and water is flowing through it to produce chlorine, could that even be a possibility?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!
 
I am fighting the same issue right now. The pool guys testing the water by sticking their hands in is not a good test. Some people feel different degrees of the "shock." For instance, I can barely feel mine at all but my wife and 3 year feel it very bad. I can tell you what I've been told in my post here about it. If you are feeling the shock, there is an issue with your bonding grid. It doesn't matter where the voltage is coming from, the bonding grip is supposed to stop anyone from feeling that shock

I just want to add that I also have polymer walls. My pool installer has installed 3 pools with these walls and all 3 have had the same issue...
 
Not an EE or electrical expert, but since the 2 common denominators are (!) electrical current felt in/around pool (2) polymer walls, it appears to me there is something in the design of polymer pools that is defective. Since a polymer pool does not have rebar throughout its walls and other, there seems to not be enough metal to ground the electrical discharges, so the pool water and watch comes in contract w it is. This is consistent w a smaller child [less mass] and wife [less mass than husband] are experiencing a greater degree of shock bc there is less of them to distribute the incidental current.

With the wire run around the pool, it seems to be taking enough of the current to not make it a "real shocking experience", but it still needs to be fully assessed, identified and resolved. In no way should you take my personal disclaimer that the wire run is helping to minimize the current to an acceptable level. Any level of current needs to be immediately corrected. From what I am reading here, it sounds like of the PB drove 1/2" x 5-6ft rebar into the ground every 5-8 ft and secured it to the bonding wire ran around the pool, that might do the job. Either way, this needs to be resolved and polymer pools needs to be put on hold until this problem is truly corrected.
 
First of all I will say that it is not 100% safe to be using humans as test meters. Better if you get a sensitive voltmeter and try and measure voltage between different spots.

That being said, since you know how to feel the problem I would turn off all your pool breakers and see if the tingle goes away. If it does, then turn on one breaker at a time and see if you get a tingle. See if you can isolate it to a circuit. Once you do then call an electrician and tell him what you have determined.

Depending which breaker it is we may be able to give you some tips where to look.

The SWG power supply should be bonded to the pool. The SWG cell works off of lower voltage from the power supply and not 120Vac. So it is unlikely that is the root cause.
 
You need to get someone out to meter the issue. Touch is not sufficient.

If you're part of the circuit and not feeling OSHA defined shock levels (google that), you may be safe for now, but something is failing.

Coming purely from an EE perspective, I'll oversimplify this.

Some voltage source runs back to earth with a large enough impedance that it does not trip your breaker -- most of the times. ie Current is less than say 10A
Sometimes, the impedance reduces enough to draw greater than 10A -- Apparently in rain/damp conditions
Sometimes, when you wet the pool area down and hop in you feel a current but it obviously does not trip your breaker. Less than 10A.

If you look up OSHA levels, greater than 1mA or 0.001A will be noticeable. You notice this by tingles, then uncontrolled muscle tensing, so forth and so on followed by death. Severe injury comes well before you trip a breaker. This is not supposed to be a scare tactic but if it were my pool coming from an EE perspective, I'd be nowhere near the water until I was able to determine the root of the impedance reduction. I would follow some of the methods detailed here, but if you're unsure, and your electricians are hopping in the pool to try out the OSHA shock level, get someone else.
 
blazin said:
You need to get someone out to meter the issue. Touch is not sufficient.

If you're part of the circuit and not feeling OSHA defined shock levels (google that), you may be safe for now, but something is failing.

Coming purely from an EE perspective, I'll oversimplify this.

Some voltage source runs back to earth with a large enough impedance that it does not trip your breaker -- most of the times. ie Current is less than say 10A
Sometimes, the impedance reduces enough to draw greater than 10A -- Apparently in rain/damp conditions
Sometimes, when you wet the pool area down and hop in you feel a current but it obviously does not trip your breaker. Less than 10A.

If you look up OSHA levels, greater than 1mA or 0.001A will be noticeable. You notice this by tingles, then uncontrolled muscle tensing, so forth and so on followed by death. Severe injury comes well before you trip a breaker. This is not supposed to be a scare tactic but if it were my pool coming from an EE perspective, I'd be nowhere near the water until I was able to determine the root of the impedance reduction. I would follow some of the methods detailed here, but if you're unsure, and your electricians are hopping in the pool to try out the OSHA shock level, get someone else.
Click to expand...

Form OP, "The guys from the pool company came out today and were not able to duplicate the issue, which was discouraging. He got in the pool, touched the concrete deck as I had done, etc. but said he felt nothing."

It was the pool builders reps that jumped into the pool; not an electrician, at least I hope it wasn't.

I concur 100% on finding and resolving the problem. But, my cards are on insufficient metal in the typical pool shell to bond back to the equipment pad. This is bc many other polymer pools had the same issue...
 
tstex said:
Form OP, "The guys from the pool company came out today and were not able to duplicate the issue, which was discouraging. He got in the pool, touched the concrete deck as I had done, etc. but said he felt nothing."

It was the pool builders reps that jumped into the pool; not an electrician, at least I hope it wasn't.

I concur 100% on finding and resolving the problem. But, my cards are on insufficient metal in the pool to bond back to the equipment pad. This is bc many other polymer pools had the same issue...
Click to expand...


Ahh.. I read that part about the electrician's replacing the breakers and the guy jumping in the pool thinking it was the same people. Yea, I'm not familiar how systemic the issue is, but agreed, improper bonding that results in a potential difference could cause a current to flow.
 
My guess on this is that the metal ladders are no where near where this is happening. If this is the case, there are voltage gradients developing in the pool and the surrounding area. If the deck is bonded to the pool water via the railings it may be that the area where you are experiencing this needs some additional bonding to the water. An experiment to try is to measure the voltage with a volt/ohm meter to get a good base line reading. Then with that reading noted, put a piece of bare copper wire into the water and attach the other end to a wet section of the deck where you feel the tingle. Maybe set a brick on it to get good contact. Now measure the voltage differential again. I suspect it will be gone.

Dan
 
Pool guy

How many polymer pools do you service/see? It seems odd to me that 4-5 diff polymer pools are experiencing the same thing.

Any other polymer pool owners w similar issues? If so, what was done to resolve ? Thanks
 

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Even with water bonds and metal ladders in the water connected to the bonding grid, there can still be voltage gradients in the water. Most times these are small enough voltage wise that you don't feel them and the water bonds can take care of them. Water, depending on its mineral makeup can vary in its ability to be conductive.

Here is an interesting web site that speaks about voltage gradients related to dairy farms. The subject may not be pools but the physics apply equally to farms and pools.

Voltage Gradients in and on the Earth formed by Currents Flowing in the Earth (S.31)

Dan
 
So I have an update on my troubleshooting.... although I wasn't really expecting this outcome. Last night, I first made sure I could reproduce the issue with both of my breakers (equipment pad and light) to the pool turned on as usual. I felt the usual tingle if I was wet, sitting on the pool deck and slowly dipping my foot into the water. I then turned one of the breakers off and re-tested. The tingle was still present. I turned off the other breaker so that both were off and much to my surprise, the tingle was still there and just as noticeable as ever. So now I'm even more confused because at that point, any and all power to the pool area should be turned off at the breaker box. I can't think of any other electrical wiring of any kind around the pool. We didn't did into any wiring and had PUPS come mark the yard prior to starting the dig. Could the water just be carrying some kind of static electricity?
 
If that works,then turn the main on with all the other breakers off and turn 1 breaker on at a time. Try to pin point the leak.

If you are still getting the tingle with the main off, the leak can be coming from a neighbor or your utility directly
 
jza1736 said:
If that works,then turn the main on with all the other breakers off and turn 1 breaker on at a time. Try to pin point the leak.

If you are still getting the tingle with the main off, the leak can be coming from a neighbor or your utility directly
Click to expand...

I wish I understood more about electricity =/ So how would the scenario work if my neighbor, for example, was the source of the leak. How would I feel that current in my pool?
 
Think of a battery. Simple circuit with a light bulb. Electricity wants to go back to the source.

If your neighbor has a leak to ground, the electrons are trying to get back to the utility that produced them. Because of The resistance of the ground the voltage will get less and less as you get further away from the leak.

The bonding of your pool does not get rid of the leak. It gives the electrons a free path, and keeps the voltage in and around the pool the same. This helps prevent accidental shocks.

If you go on you tube you can see how they repair high voltage transmission lines with a helicopter. They actually clip on to the live line so that they and the helicopter are actually electrified. They don't get shocked because of the free path.
 
jza1736 said:
Do you have a water bond? Not the ladder, it is removable and the cups that they sit in can fail
Click to expand...

All I am aware of is the ground wire that I recall them running around the entire pool before the concrete deck was poured. It was attached to both step rails and the ladder and then connected to a metal rod that they put in the ground by the equipment pad. Is that a water bond?
 

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