Replaced motor, now won't stay on after a few seconds

[Norton]

Hi everyone, and first I should probably apologize in advance for being 'that guy' who registers to ask a question that probably comes up often... but have a question that I kind of give away in the thread's title.

First, some background - I live in Florida and have a 10,000 gallon in-ground pool, built six years ago. Setup included a Jandy FloPro FHPM 1.5-2 dual speed pump. I replaced the motor with a remanufactured/refurb one a few years ago when the first one died, and recently the current motor fried when I had a water mishap (it's another story, but the area around the pump and motor flooded and the motor is sitting on the ground so... wet. It's not coming back to life, I've moved on).

So I found another remanufactured motor from someone on my local Facebook marketplace (it's a Hayward Tristar/AOSmith Century motor with the model number SP3210Z2ME), with the same specs except a lower service factor -- giving it a lower total HP than my prior motor (1.85 compared to 2.2). I called a pool company who told me it would be bad for the impeller long-term, but would likely last a matter of months and I could probably get away with it temporarily until I upgrade to a variable pump later this year, which I was hoping to do.

I bought a new ceramic shaft/seal kit and swapped out the bad motor with the new/used one yesterday, and when all was said and done I turned it on. It started turning for about 3-5 seconds, and shut off. No clicking, no weird sounds really at all -- it just shut down after I power it on. I can't turn it back on immediately, but waiting a minute or two will suffice -- then I can turn it on again, and it does exactly the same thing every time. Might be worth noting that the water level inside the pump is lower and there's not really any time to pull any substantial water through the basket into the motor, although I don't know if that would cause a shutdown.

I'm a total novice on all things 'handy' -- teaching myself as I go, a first-time homeowner figuring everything out through youtube videos each time something new breaks. So with all that info -- what would you think? I'm disappointed because I've had great success with each prior home project and never failed after spending hours on something like this... but after putting it all back together again, I don't know what to do now.

 

[satpoolman]

I bought a new ceramic shaft/seal kit and swapped out the bad motor with the new/used one yesterday, and when all was said and done I turned it on. It started turning for about 3-5 seconds, and shut off. No clicking, no weird sounds really at all -- it just shut down after I power it on. I can't turn it back on immediately, but waiting a minute or two will suffice -- then I can turn it on again, and it does exactly the same thing every time.

It sounds like you're putting 220v to a 110v motor, causing it to overheat & trip the thermal protection switch. After the motor cools, the thermal protect switch resets-this is why you can turn it back on after waiting a few minutes. Make sure your input voltage matches what's required to run the motor. Hope this helps.

Regards,
E

 

[Norton]

It sounds like you're putting 220v to a 110v motor, causing it to overheat & trip the thermal protection switch. After the motor cools, the thermal protect switch resets-this is why you can turn it back on after waiting a few minutes. Make sure your input voltage matches what's required to run the motor. Hope this helps.

Regards,
E

What you said makes sense, except this is the motor I installed and the sticker shows it's rated at 208-230 volts. Besides that, I'd think that was the problem, too. I read somewhere that some motors can be switched from 110 to 220 and vice versa, but this is where I really don't have much understanding of electrical stuff. Could this motor possibly be set for 110? how do I tell with this one? I'm still at a loss to explain it.

Also, Each time it shut off, I turned off the breaker right away the other night. Yesterday I left it alone after shutoff, and it started running again on its own about 30-40 seconds after turning off... failing just as before in a matter of seconds.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Norton,

Seems like it can only be one of two things... Either you mis-wired the motor or the motor is bad... Based upon where you bought the motor, I'd say it is a 50/50 chance for either one..

Show us a pic of how you have it wired... How are you selecting between high speed and low speed? The more you tell us or show us the more likely you are to get a better answer...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JamesW]

The motor is undersized. That might be problem.

The old motor was a 1.5 full rated motor but the new one is a 1 hp full rated motor. The new motor is actually about 1.65 total hp. So, the new motor is overloaded enough to cause the problem.

Dropping the impeller size by 1 or 2 would help.

It's a 6 year old motor, that's not good.

Does the impeller spin easily?

 

[Norton]

Norton,

Seems like it can only be one of two things... Either you mis-wired the motor or the motor is bad... Based upon where you bought the motor, I'd say it is a 50/50 chance for either one..

Show us a pic of how you have it wired... How are you selecting between high speed and low speed? The more you tell us or show us the more likely you are to get a better answer...

Thanks,

Jim R.

This is my setup, and I'm told it's a unique one -- the pool company installed two separate boxes, with the main box holding the low speed timer and a bottom box holding the high-speed timer. Additionally I have an ozone cartridge and a Nature2 filter, which no one has ever heard of together in the same pool from what I've since learned. Anyhow, here's the view, and below is how I wired the motor... (copied from the prior motor).

 

[Jimrahbe]

Norton,

Ok, here is my concern.. you can't have power to both the High and Low speeds at the same time... Because you have two different boxes and we really don't know for sure which wires (color wise) are which we need to make sure that you have the right voltages going to the right terminals...

You need to remove all three wires from the new motor... (You cannot do this test with the motor in the circuit)

Make sure the wires are not touching anything or each other. If you don't have a voltmeter you will need to buy or borrow one..

1. Turn the system to High Speed.... connect the volt meter between the green ground wire and each wire, one at a time ... you should have about 120 volts on two of the wires and nothing on the other wire.. (Assuming the old motor was switching speeds before the flood, then you should expect to see 120 volts on the black and white wires and nothing on the red..)

2. Turn the system to Low Speed... perform the same test as above... (I assume you will have 120 volts on black and red wires and nothing on the white wire.)

If you pass the above tests then I can only assume that your motor is dead.

If you have voltage on all three wires then you are not switching between the Low Speed and High speed correctly and I suspect that this will have blown up the new motor...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JamesW]

What is the model number of the bottom timer?

The way it's set up, there's no way to power both sets of windings at the same time, especially if the wiring in the timers was not changed.

Most likely, the top timer is on/off and the bottom timer is a T106 two speed timer that switches one leg from high to low.

When you say that the motor was "remanufactured", what does that mean?

Does the motor work on low speed?

Can you spin the impeller by hand?

How do you turn the pump on and off and how do you switch speeds?

In any case, the motor is significantly undersized and that might be the entire problem.

Edit - Since the pump never got full prime, it might not be due to overloading. The full load doesn't apply until you get prime.

It could be a jammed impeller.

So, maybe it's a miswiring or wrong voltage or just a bad motor.

 

[Norton]

Hi Jim, the weather was lousy yesterday but I'll try this when I'm able to...

 

[Norton]

See red comments --

What is the model number of the bottom timer?
The way it's set up, there's no way to power both sets of windings at the same time, especially if the wiring in the timers was not changed.
Most likely, the top timer is on/off and the bottom timer is a T106 two speed timer that switches one leg from high to low.The top timer shows a model T21004R and the bottom says PE153P. I'm not sure what you mean about powering both sets of windings, especially because this isn't a new system... it's been like this since the pool was installed six years ago -- I only swapped out the motor and put the wires in the same connection spots as the prior motor. The top timer is the 'master' that turns the entire pump/motor on at low speed, and the bottom one turns on the high speed. The top must be on for the pump to operate either way.

When you say that the motor was "remanufactured", what does that mean? Not the best word choice, but you know how there are 'pool guys' who service used motors and re-sell them on facebook, craigslist etc? That's the deal with this one. Got it for cheap.

Does the motor work on low speed? Same result either way, whether the bottom timer (high speed) powered on or off -- it only runs for a few seconds.
Can you spin the impeller by hand? Yes, no issue
How do you turn the pump on and off and how do you switch speeds? On/Off toggle switch below each timer dial, when doing manually.

In any case, the motor is significantly undersized and that might be the entire problem? Would it be? They have the same HP (1.5/.19 on the sticker) but service factor lower than prior one (1.23 compared to 1.47). Is that 'significantly undersized'? I figured using a 1HP motor would be signficant, but 1.5 with just a lower SF would suffice, at least temporarily... just an inexperienced assumption, though.

Edit - Since the pump never got full prime, it might not be due to overloading. The full load doesn't apply until you get prime. Should I attempt to prime it, and how? I had considered putting a hose into the pump's basket until the pipes filled all the way up with water, but didn't know if that would do anything or if lack of water flow would cause it to turn off so quickly.

It could be a jammed impeller. If so, how could I know?

So, maybe it's a miswiring or wrong voltage or just a bad motor.

 

[JamesW]

So, the top timer turns the pump on and off but the bottom timer switches from high to low?

I'm thinking that someone just sold you a bad motor. I doubt that anything was done to refurbish the motor. The through bolts don't look like they have been removed and reinstalled.

If the bolts were removed, the corners of the hex heads would be shiny where the rust got knocked off.

Check voltage to be sure but I think that someone is selling old motor that they know are bad.

 

[JamesW]

Maybe try a new capacitor and clean the contacts on the centrifugal switch.

 

[Flying Tivo]

+1 on the capacitor!

Felipe