Stenner Liquid Chlorine Chlorinator vs Salt Water Chlorine Generation

[RadEngr70]

I'm gonna pull the trigger on either a Stenner Liquid Chlorine Chlorinator, or a SWG... I can't decide. One side or the other convince me which way to go. You can see the stats on my pool in my signature... I have no natural rock in my pool construction...

I expect a Hatfield vs the McCoys type of debate... otherwise it's no fun...

but really... any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[chiefwej]

I have a Hayward AQR-15 and we love it. It's been in service about 12 years. First cell lasted about 7 years, second 5. A Stenner adds chlorine for you, but you still have to buy it, haul it home and store it. With SWG you pay for your chlorine by replacing the cell. As an example, my first cell lasted 7+ years in a 19,000 gallon pool that is open year-round, located in very sunny Tucson. It cost about $450 to replace. That works out to $450/7 =$64.29. Less than $65 per year to chlorinate a 19,000 pool, is pretty hard to beat. No buying, hauling, pouring or storage of liquid chlorine. But there are lots of folks that love their Stenner, so I'll give them their turn.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Rad,

The basic difference is that with the Stenner you still have to buy bulk chlorine, but you can automate the amount you put in each day. Another difference is that a Stenner works 356 days a year..

With a SWCG, you no longer have to buy chlorine, as the cell makes it for you. The main downside is that the cell will not work when the water temperature is below about 52 degrees. When the water is below 52 degrees, you have to manually use Liquid Chlorine, but since it is winter you don't need very much..

From the water "feel" point of view, the SWCG needs the saltwater to work, but you can also add salt to a Stenner pool if you wanted that silky saltwater feel...

From just my point of view, I will never, ever, ever, have a non-saltwater pool again...

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

 

[ping]

The biggest consideration is buying, storing, refilling, and the cost of the liquid chlorine compared to paying for all the chlorine up front for a SWG.

I would say Stenner pumps have fewer issues overall and just need to have some routine maintenance done to keep them in good working condition.

That said, any pool that I will ever own will have a SWG.

With your Hayward pool equipment, I would suggest a Hayward AquaRite T-15 sized system.

 

[Teald024]

It cost about $450 to replace. That works out to $450/7 =$64.29. Less than $65 per year to chlorinate a 19,000 pool, is pretty hard to beat. No buying, hauling, pouring or storage of liquid chlorine.

Don't forget with the SWG the salt cost, one time add, then a few bags a year. And the salt test strips or kit. Electricity for SWG and possibly longer pump run times. Still supplement with bleach occasionally.
Many SWG can tie into automation if you buy the right brand.


There are downsides to each system. Just need to decide which fits your budget and expectations.

 

[chiefwej]

I have a VS pump that's cheap to run. I don't need to run it any extra to chlorinate, in fact if I wanted to turn the SWG to 100%, I could cut my pump time down even further. Salt, about $40 for my initial startup and maybe $8 for a couple bags per year. Bleach, say $10, (I might buy a gallon or two for spring or fall). Maybe add $20 - $40 per year for some extra muriatic acid, due to rising pH form SWG. But, during the year MA is really the only thing I ever have to add.

Even if it cost the same or more, being able to just turn a knob to adjust your chlorine level....pricesless.

 

[elwood58]

I am a big fan of automation, so I like both Stenner Pump and SWCG. I currently have Intellichlor IC-40, and IntellipH on my pool. The only time I add anything here in the sunny southwest is when I want to adjust my TA by adding MA, followed by aeration.

 

[CaptainCannonball]

Our last pool was a SWG and we loved it. Our current pool is dosed with a Stenner and guess what? We love it I don't think you can go wrong either way. We have such a large amount of splash out, the added acid and salt with a SWG would almost offset lugging around the bleach. I go to the pool store about once every two weeks in the summer and pick up two cases and less than once a month in the winter to get one case. For me it isn't a big deal, but if you are older or have a bad back, I get it. They can both be automated easily and if you start with a Stenner and convert to SWG later, the Stenner can be used to dose acid.

SWG
pros:
No dealing with lugging bleach around
soft water feel

cons:
Higher initial cost
Added pump run time
Added electricity costs
Added acid demand (may or may not see this in practice)
500lbs. of salt initially
need alternate chlorination when cold
additional test for salt

Stenner
pros:
less initial cost
percise Cl measurement
reduced pump run time
reduced power consumption
year round solution
easier to rapidly increase FC levels

cons:
lugging bleach
maintenance costs (tubes and check valves)

 

[GDN]

Here is my thread on my Stenner: https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/136912-Stenner-install-Pentair-ET8

I can't argue against a SWG, but the Stenner was just too easy to do, I could do it myself and much less up front cost. I don't mind grabbing a few gallons of chlorine every few weeks and it gives me an excuse to look at and keep up with the pool and check on things when I add chlorine. I also had an automation system just waiting for another device to be added.

It's really about the pros and cons for you. Up front costs vs long term costs.

 

[LFrankow]

I got into salt a few years back mainly for the automation part which is nice when we were both working out of town.
Both are SWG's and Stenner pumps are machines and by falling into that category will eventually break down, and with Murphy's Law going into effect it will be during an unsupervised time as well, ie you are out of town.
When that happens and it will, the biggest question will be, how much does a gallon of water cost you? My water costs me about .48 cent a cubic meter, so a partial drain and refill to lower my CYA to 30 and then SLAM wouldn't be too bad. Most people living in areas with well water or high municipal rates and large pools tend to go with the Stenner, and I am thinking the reason above is why.

 

[RadEngr70]

Thanks all... all good replies. As I thought, there is really no wrong answer, which makes it all the harder for me to decide.

Anyone have any clue why pool builders of gunite/plaster pools steer people away from the SWG systems. I get there could be issues when natural rock is concerned, but our pool is masonry/tile only with no ladders/rails/diving boards, etc - but yet the builder recommended against a SWG system, even after I told him I wanted the easiest highest-end sanitation system available.

Thanks...

 

[Teald024]

but yet the builder recommended against a SWG system, even after I told him I wanted the easiest highest-end sanitation system available.

Mostly because the builders don't understand SWG and overstate the risks. Many think that salt will quickly corrode everything aand builders don't want the warranty risk associated with that, real or imagined. They blame poor water quality on salt when it is usually pH or CSI issues. There seems to be a lot of mis-information out there about the dangers of salt. When many ppl think of saltwater, they think of the ocean. A SW pool is nowhere near ocean salt levels by a difference of 10x

Careful, they may offer UV or ozone as easy / high end solutions. Neither are useful for residential outdoor pools.

 

[RadEngr70]

Mostly because the builders don't understand SWG and overstate the risks. Many think that salt will quickly corrode everything aand builders don't want the warranty risk associated with that, real or imagined. They blame poor water quality on salt when it is usually pH or CSI issues. There seems to be a lot of mis-information out there about the dangers of salt. When many ppl think of saltwater, they think of the ocean. A SW pool is nowhere near ocean salt levels by a difference of 10x

Careful, they may offer UV or ozone as easy / high end solutions. Neither are useful for residential outdoor pools.

Teal, I have come to believe as you. Mainly the liability aspect in the courts, which has come back to bite the pool builders, cuz it's easy to say "salt water" and everyone thinks "corrosion".

Thanks

 

[chiefwej]

There are exceptions among pool builders. My pool builder was a local outlet of a very large west coast company. They not only recommend salt water, but had private labeled versions under their own name. The same person designed three neighbors pools in a row. All salt pools and all designed as such. My pool has no natural stone anywhere. There is no coping, since it has a cantilevered concrete deck coated with a textured acrylic finish. So even if there were any concern about salt, there is really nothing for the salt to damage. After 12 years, it pretty much looks like the day it was opened.

 

[LFrankow]

Fear is normally brought on by lack of knowledge and understanding.
A salt pool is at ~ 3,000 ppm, ocean water is close to 30,000 ppm, big difference.
Most people me included don't run high enough CYA levels when they first get "into salt", which leads to a lot of "my SWG won't keep up" posts. It is the season in the next two weeks there will probably be from 10-30 "my SWG won't keep up" posts, most of them due to low CYA levels.

 

[chiefwej]

Fear is normally brought on by lack of knowledge and understanding.
A salt pool is at ~ 3,000 ppm, ocean water is close to 30,000 ppm, big difference.
Most people me included don't run high enough CYA levels when they first get "into salt", which leads to a lot of "my SWG won't keep up" posts. It is the season in the next two weeks there will probably be from 10-30 "my SWG won't keep up" posts, most of them due to low CYA levels.

Those are some of same reasons "my cell is shot after one year". Well that and allowing scale to form due to high pH, then soaking the cell with acid.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I'd like to correct one technical point - SWGs are pH neutral. They do not, in and of themselves, create any acid demand. The chemistry proves this.

In practice, most people that switch to SWGs do so by stopping their use of acidic chlorine sources, i.e., dichlor and trichlor. Because they stop using an acidic chlorine source that holds their TA and pH in check, they then need to supplement with acid additions.

If you were to start off with a Stenner pump, then the acid demand you experience with that would be roughly the same as with a Stenner pump.

 

[CaptainCannonball]

I'd like to correct one technical point - SWGs are pH neutral. They do not, in and of themselves, create any acid demand. The chemistry proves this.

In practice, most people that switch to SWGs do so by stopping their use of acidic chlorine sources, i.e., dichlor and trichlor. Because they stop using an acidic chlorine source that holds their TA and pH in check, they then need to supplement with acid additions.

If you were to start off with a Stenner pump, then the acid demand you experience with that would be roughly the same as with a Stenner pump.

I always felt (albeit possibly incorrectly) that the cavitation that the cell generates creates additional aeration that drives up the PH.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I always felt (albeit possibly incorrectly) that the cavitation that the cell generates creates additional aeration that drives up the PH.

The cell itself does not produce cavitation, that is strictly a fluid flow phenomenon. The cell does create hydrogen gas bubbles which do not dissolve into solution. The hydrogen gas evolution does cause some aeration of the water which will raise pH but it's not going to significant compared to other forms of CO2 outgassing.

 

[CaptainCannonball]

The cell itself does not produce cavitation, that is strictly a fluid flow phenomenon. The cell does create hydrogen gas bubbles which do not dissolve into solution. The hydrogen gas evolution does cause some aeration of the water which will raise pH but it's not going to significant compared to other forms of CO2 outgassing.

Ok, no more big words for me A few years ago when I was having ph issues with my SWG, I read a post by Chemgeek where he explained the process that caused the ph rise... long since brain dumped, so I probably got it wrong.