Surface Debris and Pollen not being skimmed - Intex + Hayward Pump + Hayward Skimmer

[theskyisthelimit99]

I have an intex 18 ultra frame (links below to build pics).. i recently upgraded the sand pump from an intex 0.5 hp to a hayward 1.5 hp matrix + 21" tank, along with putting a hayward wide mouth skimmer to the right of one of the suction ports and converted to 1.5 pvc, along with solar panels (ran with 2" pipes).

I took out the stock return jet and put in the hayward 0.75" that came with the skimmer.. at first i had it blowing more across the pool (level or just below water level).. now i've turned it so its aiming towards my steps, in front of them, more of the clockwise motion..

Despite all this, the surface remains filthy at times.. especially the pollen/bugs floating along. The hayward skimmer does collect quite a bit.. i never have the second suction on, because it would reduce suction on the skimmer.. the skimmer literally will hurt your hand if you test it without the basket, it has that much suction.. i keep the water level at the 2/3 mark (screws 2/3 way up)..

I ordered one of these "skim-it" bars to see if it helps

I thought about going to bigger return jet size like this 1" hayward which would also reduce the pressure levels.. right now i sit about 18 psi with or without solar turned on (another issue possibly, being no change in psi).

I do see the flow of water heading into the skimmer strangely.

I also run a robot on a split most of the time, where i tone down the return jet slightly to give the robot more power (the intex robot).. it does a good job on the bottom.

Can anyone suggest anything else to try.. maybe its all in the return jet direction being off or needing aimed differently.
I'll try to post a video of the situation soon.


Thanks in advance

 

[Mickelin]

The return should be pointed 45 degrees down, 45 degrees left (away from the skimmer). That creates a circular motion of not just the surface water but the full body of water. That helps circulation, brings up debris from the bottom and improves skimming. Sound like you have good suction in the skimmer, so no problem there. If you have a lot of stuff hitting the surface, skimming is going to take a while, its not magic after all. How about keeping a solar cover on, is that a possibility?

 

[domct203]

I have an intex 18 ultra frame (links below to build pics).. i recently upgraded the sand pump from an intex 0.5 hp to a hayward 1.5 hp matrix + 21" tank, along with putting a hayward wide mouth skimmer to the right of one of the suction ports and converted to 1.5 pvc, along with solar panels (ran with 2" pipes).

I took out the stock return jet and put in the hayward 0.75" that came with the skimmer.. at first i had it blowing more across the pool (level or just below water level).. now i've turned it so its aiming towards my steps, in front of them, more of the clockwise motion..

Despite all this, the surface remains filthy at times.. especially the pollen/bugs floating along. The hayward skimmer does collect quite a bit.. i never have the second suction on, because it would reduce suction on the skimmer.. the skimmer literally will hurt your hand if you test it without the basket, it has that much suction.. i keep the water level at the 2/3 mark (screws 2/3 way up)..

I ordered one of these "skim-it" bars to see if it helps

I thought about going to bigger return jet size like this 1" hayward which would also reduce the pressure levels.. right now i sit about 18 psi with or without solar turned on (another issue possibly, being no change in psi).

I do see the flow of water heading into the skimmer strangely.

I also run a robot on a split most of the time, where i tone down the return jet slightly to give the robot more power (the intex robot).. it does a good job on the bottom.

Can anyone suggest anything else to try.. maybe its all in the return jet direction being off or needing aimed differently.
I'll try to post a video of the situation soon.


Thanks in advance

I use the Skim-It, but you will find that it is a PITA to keep it mounted to the skimmer box. There just isn't enough 'lip' in front of the weir to get a sturdy mount.

Here's my solution:

In the pics you can see where I made a small 'dam' out of a piece of pool noodle to stop debris from slipping by. With the Hayward system that 'dam' is no longer needed, nothing gets by the skimmer now (well, nothing within the reach of the Skim-It).

Also, I found that with the 3/4" eyeball the water rotation speed was so fast that a lot of debris was working it's way over the tip if the Skim-It. I went to a 1" eyeball and it seems to help with that issue, as well as dropping overall system PSI a smidge.

Regarding your PSI quandary, have you tried eliminating the SWG as a cause of the restriction? I think your cell is pretty much a 'U-turn' for the water, right?

 

[Smolder]

I've been having the same issue with the thru-wall skimmer. After 2-3 weeks of adjusting the return eye in an effort to try to feed the debris to the skimmer, I've come to the conclusion that the thru-wall skimmer isn't proper for these pools. (probably why intex doesn't design them this way) The debris is moving at a good clip around the middle, but very little ever works its way to the outside. I had much better results with the over the wall basket.
I've been noticing since I've done this, how many people on here have done this mod, but have never come back and said how well it worked for them. I do remember someone posting that he was using the in-pool basket to supplement the thru-wall skimmer. That should have been my first clue. It does make for a cleaner look, but certainly not a cleaner pool.

 

[domct203]

Sorry, but I disagree. The thru wall skimmer keeps my pool 10X cleaner than the Intex 'bucket' ever did. I located my skimmer downwind across the pool and it leaves very little debris in the pool.

If the bucket style was more efficient I'm sure that would be the choice of hard wall pool manufacturers.

 

[denno]

I have an intex 18 ultra frame (links below to build pics).. i recently upgraded the sand pump from an intex 0.5 hp to a hayward 1.5 hp matrix + 21" tank, along with putting a hayward wide mouth skimmer to the right of one of the suction ports and converted to 1.5 pvc, along with solar panels (ran with 2" pipes).

I took out the stock return jet and put in the hayward 0.75" that came with the skimmer.. at first i had it blowing more across the pool (level or just below water level).. now i've turned it so its aiming towards my steps, in front of them, more of the clockwise motion..

Despite all this, the surface remains filthy at times.. especially the pollen/bugs floating along. The hayward skimmer does collect quite a bit.. i never have the second suction on, because it would reduce suction on the skimmer.. the skimmer literally will hurt your hand if you test it without the basket, it has that much suction.. i keep the water level at the 2/3 mark (screws 2/3 way up)..

I ordered one of these "skim-it" bars to see if it helps

I thought about going to bigger return jet size like this 1" hayward which would also reduce the pressure levels.. right now i sit about 18 psi with or without solar turned on (another issue possibly, being no change in psi).

I do see the flow of water heading into the skimmer strangely.

I also run a robot on a split most of the time, where i tone down the return jet slightly to give the robot more power (the intex robot).. it does a good job on the bottom.

Can anyone suggest anything else to try.. maybe its all in the return jet direction being off or needing aimed differently.
I'll try to post a video of the situation soon.


Thanks in advance

You don't mention if you have a skimmer with basket, but many members cover their basket with hair nets or paint bag filters. I use the paint bag which has been very effective at catching much of the debris and slime that floats in the pool. The only thing is at this time of year, with all the wind activity, the bag needs to be cleaned a couple times during the day. Once we get into June, the weather usually settles down and I only clean the bag in the morning. This has been a terrific tip given to me by other good members of this forum.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

I use the Skim-It, but you will find that it is a PITA to keep it mounted to the skimmer box. There just isn't enough 'lip' in front of the weir to get a sturdy mount.

Here's my solution:







In the pics you can see where I made a small 'dam' out of a piece of pool noodle to stop debris from slipping by. With the Hayward system that 'dam' is no longer needed, nothing gets by the skimmer now (well, nothing within the reach of the Skim-It).

Also, I found that with the 3/4" eyeball the water rotation speed was so fast that a lot of debris was working it's way over the tip if the Skim-It. I went to a 1" eyeball and it seems to help with that issue, as well as dropping overall system PSI a smidge.

Regarding your PSI quandary, have you tried eliminating the SWG as a cause of the restriction? I think your cell is pretty much a 'U-turn' for the water, right?

So do you find that the skim it device really helped alot, enough to justify it? Mine is here in a box.. debating to try it, but i see how you had to tweak to to work though, thanks for those pics, i know what to do. My wall skimmer is just to the right of the other suction port, so maybe 4 feet to the right or 6 of the eyeball.. i did just get the new 1" eyeball.. something to try too.. not looking forwarding to changing it out and having water gush out though, i guess i can put a bowl over it to try to slow it up if i do. Do you feel the eyeball swap also helped? Yeah my SWG is on the other end of the solar.. i didnt try taking it out of the equation because i feel it would take much effort.. however.. i have the flowvis for the return check valve coming friday, as well as a temperature gauge ill install in the return line..ill be able to tell from that how things are (i may even get a flow vis for the filter check later too).

- - - Updated - - -

You don't mention if you have a skimmer with basket, but many members cover their basket with hair nets or paint bag filters. I use the paint bag which has been very effective at catching much of the debris and slime that floats in the pool. The only thing is at this time of year, with all the wind activity, the bag needs to be cleaned a couple times during the day. Once we get into June, the weather usually settles down and I only clean the bag in the morning. This has been a terrific tip given to me by other good members of this forum.

I saw this tip before, at least with the hair net.. i'm assuming the painters bag or hair net would go inside the basket, not outside around it, otherwise it may get sucked into the hole? Which type of painters bag are you using exactly? I'm unsure though, how this would help with the debris on the surface.. i would assume if the pollen and other small things would go in the basket, they would end up in the sand filter which would prevent them from coming back out, unless they are going in and not being caught by the sand filter? But i thought it did 40 microns.. and i think the pollen and other particles are much bigger.

- - - Updated - - -

The return should be pointed 45 degrees down, 45 degrees left (away from the skimmer). That creates a circular motion of not just the surface water but the full body of water. That helps circulation, brings up debris from the bottom and improves skimming. Sound like you have good suction in the skimmer, so no problem there. If you have a lot of stuff hitting the surface, skimming is going to take a while, its not magic after all. How about keeping a solar cover on, is that a possibility?

I can try aiming the nozzle more 45 downward and see if it helps.. id say its 45 degrees away but not in depth as of now. I have a pretty big pump, it should take about 2 hours max for one cycle but it still remains. Not sure how the solar cover can help, since it has water ontop alot? I do have it on as of now, last few nights.

 

[domct203]

So do you find that the skim it device really helped alot, enough to justify it? Mine is here in a box.. debating to try it, but i see how you had to tweak to to work though, thanks for those pics, i know what to do. My wall skimmer is just to the right of the other suction port, so maybe 4 feet to the right or 6 of the eyeball.. i did just get the new 1" eyeball.. something to try too.. not looking forwarding to changing it out and having water gush out though, i guess i can put a bowl over it to try to slow it up if i do. Do you feel the eyeball swap also helped? Yeah my SWG is on the other end of the solar.. i didnt try taking it out of the equation because i feel it would take much effort.. however.. i have the flowvis for the return check valve coming friday, as well as a temperature gauge ill install in the return line..ill be able to tell from that how things are (i may even get a flow vis for the filter check later too).

- - - Updated - - -

I saw this tip before, at least with the hair net.. i'm assuming the painters bag or hair net would go inside the basket, not outside around it, otherwise it may get sucked into the hole? Which type of painters bag are you using exactly? I'm unsure though, how this would help with the debris on the surface.. i would assume if the pollen and other small things would go in the basket, they would end up in the sand filter which would prevent them from coming back out, unless they are going in and not being caught by the sand filter? But i thought it did 40 microns.. and i think the pollen and other particles are much bigger.

- - - Updated - - -

I can try aiming the nozzle more 45 downward and see if it helps.. id say its 45 degrees away but not in depth as of now. I have a pretty big pump, it should take about 2 hours max for one cycle but it still remains. Not sure how the solar cover can help, since it has water ontop alot? I do have it on as of now, last few nights.

Are you trying to change the eyeball with the pump running? The eyeball screws into the wall fitting that is attached to the pool (& plumbing), it is separate from the wall fitting and should not cause any water to 'gush out' from anywhere. If I remember correctly it was a couple of lbs less in filter pressure vs the 3/4" eyeball. The reduction in circulation is the result of the larger eyeball, and the re-direction on the eyeball itself.

I use hairnets in my skimmer basket (it goes inside the skimmer basket, never outside) and they work great. Be cautioned though, if you are under trees, the hair net can become quite full very quickly in the early spring. Hair nets do not help to skim the surface... they catch debris that would normally slip past the skimmer basket before it can get to the sandfilter, helping to reduce backwashing.

https://www.amazon.com/Disposable-H...888&sr=8-2&keywords=disposable+hair+nets&th=1

I'm not clear on what you mean by "I have a pretty big pump, it should take about 2 hours max for one cycle but it still remains". If you are referring to flow rate vs pool volume that is irrelevant to surface skimming. Just because you can move the volume of your pool in 2 hours doesn't mean it all came from just the surface, and from 100% of the surface. Good skimmer action is about good suction (which you should have), a properly working skimmer/weir, and getting the debris to the skimmer(s) via pool circulation, downwind location, and items such as the Skim-It that reach out from the wall to coax in more debris.

Maybe my idea of good skimming is just different from others...... I don't mind having to grab a pole skimmer and grabbing a small bit of debris from the center of the pool floor once a day. I also have a suction side cleaner (Wanda The Whale) that I put in the pool for an hour or so every 4 or 5 days. Everyone seems to think that the pool is very clean considering we are under two trees......

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Here is a shot of the typical not sucked in debris..

- - - Updated - - -

Are you trying to change the eyeball with the pump running? The eyeball screws into the wall fitting that is attached to the pool (& plumbing), it is separate from the wall fitting and should not cause any water to 'gush out' from anywhere. If I remember correctly it was a couple of lbs less in filter pressure vs the 3/4" eyeball. The reduction in circulation is the result of the larger eyeball, and the re-direction on the eyeball itself.

I use hairnets in my skimmer basket (it goes inside the skimmer basket, never outside) and they work great. Be cautioned though, if you are under trees, the hair net can become quite full very quickly in the early spring. Hair nets do not help to skim the surface... they catch debris that would normally slip past the skimmer basket before it can get to the sandfilter, helping to reduce backwashing.

https://www.amazon.com/Disposable-H...888&sr=8-2&keywords=disposable+hair+nets&th=1

I'm not clear on what you mean by "I have a pretty big pump, it should take about 2 hours max for one cycle but it still remains". If you are referring to flow rate vs pool volume that is irrelevant to surface skimming. Just because you can move the volume of your pool in 2 hours doesn't mean it all came from just the surface, and from 100% of the surface. Good skimmer action is about good suction (which you should have), a properly working skimmer/weir, and getting the debris to the skimmer(s) via pool circulation, downwind location, and items such as the Skim-It that reach out from the wall to coax in more debris.

Maybe my idea of good skimming is just different from others...... I don't mind having to grab a pole skimmer and grabbing a small bit of debris from the center of the pool floor once a day. I also have a suction side cleaner (Wanda The Whale) that I put in the pool for an hour or so every 4 or 5 days. Everyone seems to think that the pool is very clean considering we are under two trees......

Yeah i guess surface debris is different than volume cycling of the water.. on the eyeball.. i had assumed i'd take the whole thing apart, from both sides, maybe only on the pool side then. On the skim-it.. do you leave it in when people swim, or how hard is it to remove and how much of an increase in debris removal do you think you get from using it.. i guess enough or you wouldnt have left it installed?

 

[Jamison04]

Oklahoma winds and there's nothing that can be done to keep the surface clean. My skimmer is on the north side of the pool so the south wind blows everything in its direction and it still can't keep up with all the junk that gets blown into it. Even tried that skim tool that extends out and helps direct stuff directly into the skimmer.
Just the nature of pool ownership when you live where the wind never stops blowing. Good luck to ya,!

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Oklahoma winds and there's nothing that can be done to keep the surface clean. My skimmer is on the north side of the pool so the south wind blows everything in its direction and it still can't keep up with all the junk that gets blown into it. Even tried that skim tool that extends out and helps direct stuff directly into the skimmer.
Just the nature of pool ownership when you live where the wind never stops blowing. Good luck to ya,!

Yeah that was my other thought, that in my case this is just how it was and suck it up and use the skimmer net for 20 mins before swimming.. although i swear before putting the sidewall skimmer in and using the basket (and changing the pump), it was never this bad.. and the basket was in the same spot too. I'm betting the slower 1" nozzle might help.

 

[Smolder]

"Downwind" is going to be relative to the day, depending on what direction it's blowing. The wind has very little effect in my case as the pool is pretty much surrounded by trees. It's certainly not lack of suction from the 1.5 hp hayward pump. Could just be my not getting the return dialed in. I'd still be curious to have others chime in here with their satisfaction with the skimming action.

Sorry, but I disagree. The thru wall skimmer keeps my pool 10X cleaner than the Intex 'bucket' ever did. I located my skimmer downwind across the pool and it leaves very little debris in the pool.

If the bucket style was more efficient I'm sure that would be the choice of hard wall pool manufacturers.

 

[domct203]

I take the Skim-It blade out when we swim, but the PVC mount stays attached to the pool.

The Skim-It makes a big difference. The debris a foot out from the wall no longer gets by the skimmer.

 

[domct203]

I don't see any debris in that pic of the pool.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

I don't see any debris in that pic of the pool.

I drew some lines to them.. its basically pollen or other material floating around.. Not the best example, but i thought it showed it well enough.. there often are bugs and other things.. and yeah the basket does fill up a bit.

 

[domct203]

I drew some lines to them.. its basically pollen or other material floating around.. Not the best example, but i thought it showed it well enough.. there often are bugs and other things.. and yeah the basket does fill up a bit.

I'll get a bit of floating debris, but less than that & I'm under two trees.

I would just grab my pole skimmer and be done with it. What ever I miss will be invisible in the churning waters once my family is in LOL.

I would also think that the Skim-It would help reduce the amount of debris by a noticeable amount, it did for me.

Remember, everyone's pool is different. I'm lucky that any wind that makes it through my heavily tree'd development is usually always in the direction of the skimmer (with the exception of storms of course). My pump also runs from about 9:00 am until well after dinner on a sunny day due to the solar, so that is a lot of skimmer time. I also pole skim that kind of stuff everyday so it doesn't get to build up too much. I also get a nice debris pile in the center of the pool, but nothing that 2 or 4 manual scoops with the pole skimmer can't fix, and I'm OK with that.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

I'll get a bit of floating debris, but less than that & I'm under two trees.

I would just grab my pole skimmer and be done with it. What ever I miss will be invisible in the churning waters once my family is in LOL.

I would also think that the Skim-It would help reduce the amount of debris by a noticeable amount, it did for me.

Remember, everyone's pool is different. I'm lucky that any wind that makes it through my heavily tree'd development is usually always in the direction of the skimmer (with the exception of storms of course). My pump also runs from about 9:00 am until well after dinner on a sunny day due to the solar, so that is a lot of skimmer time. I also pole skim that kind of stuff everyday so it doesn't get to build up too much. I also get a nice debris pile in the center of the pool, but nothing that 2 or 4 manual scoops with the pole skimmer can't fix, and I'm OK with that.

Update on this..
I still wonder if my floating particles end up being debris from shavings from the pvc pipes that just arent getting completely caught in the sand filter and eventually work their way back in, unsure.. the skim it has indeed made a bit of a difference.

Was your primary reason for building the pvc holder, so that if you had a robot and hose in the water it didnt knock the skimit to the side and cover the hole? Mine seems to do that eventually, the hose pushes it over as the robot works.. very annoying.

I'm trying to look at your pics to see exactly how you constructed that holder.

 

[domct203]

Update on this..
I still wonder if my floating particles end up being debris from shavings from the pvc pipes that just arent getting completely caught in the sand filter and eventually work their way back in, unsure.. the skim it has indeed made a bit of a difference.

Was your primary reason for building the pvc holder, so that if you had a robot and hose in the water it didnt knock the skimit to the side and cover the hole? Mine seems to do that eventually, the hose pushes it over as the robot works.. very annoying.

I'm trying to look at your pics to see exactly how you constructed that holder.

If you can see it, it should get caught in the (properly working) filter, 40 micron is extremely small and your filter should be able to grab down to that.

I remove the skim-it when I use my auto-vac.

I made the PVC mount because after a bit of use the skim-it kept working itself loose from the skimmer opening. The mount was only half in the skimmer opening or it would hit the weir. the mount eliminated all those issues.

If you need any more pics just let me know.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

If you can see it, it should get caught in the (properly working) filter, 40 micron is extremely small and your filter should be able to grab down to that.

I remove the skim-it when I use my auto-vac.

I made the PVC mount because after a bit of use the skim-it kept working itself loose from the skimmer opening. The mount was only half in the skimmer opening or it would hit the weir. the mount eliminated all those issues.

If you need any more pics just let me know.

Ah i see.. well, i think if i could keep it from turning then i'd be ok, maybe there is something i can simply wedge in there to keep it from twisting and ill be good to go.