seeking advice on my pool plan and quotes

[Suburbanjuls]

Hi all! I am hoping to recreate or perhaps surpass the pool we had when we lived in CA. That one was 16x32 with an auto cover and raised 6x8 spa. Hayward equip. Now I am in a new state (NC) have 3 quotes from pool builders in my area. We were limited by our small yard in CA, and wanted a bit bigger size this time around, so we are planning on 18x36 with 6x8 spa. Well, I started out at 20x40 but pool builders in my area are more than double what we spent in CA 6 years ago, so I shrunk it a bit. I'm trying to not stress too much about the not too distant past, but I really want to be better prepared than I was last time. I knew nothing, but we had a highly regarded builder so I felt safe in their hands and we had a flawless build. Now it seems there is the post-pandemic effect of having more people wanting to have pools and builders can charge what they like, take however long, and people will pay. Myself included!

Anyway, I have 3 quotes and they are vastly different(by about 20%), although all based on my drawing which I sent them which I am attaching. Two quotes are with Hayward although without model numbers, how can I tell if they are using the same items? The third quote is much less and they use Pentair. They did leave off the pool heater, so that accounts for some of the difference. My husband made a spreadsheet to try to decipher what was the same and what was different from the 3 quotes. By and large, the features were similar with a difference of a pool light here, 2 extra spa jets there. In the end, I don't know what it is that I don't know and I feel a bit nervous that I will either be taken to the cleaners by the highest bid, or get baited and switched by the low bidder. Middle bidder and low bidder have mostly very good ratings online and just a few not so good ones that may or may not have been pandemic related problems. Highest bidder is well known as the best but most expensive in our area. Only stellar reviews found online, but not sure if businesses can scrub them these days.

Any advice on how to sort through bids? What to ask a pool builder to determine if they are full of you know what or on the up and up? I want to set myself up as much as possible for a successful build. I am also attaching pics of our beautiful pool in CA as what I am going for.

Thanks so much!

 

[ajw22]

You have to demand all model numbers to know what you are buying. Guessing or assuming is a bad way to start an expensive relationship.

Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to select pool equipment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[kimkats]

With you deep end being 8' I would have the shallow end at 4'. This will ease the slope between the two quite a bit.

You HAVE to have the model numbers to really know what they are selling you. There is a huge difference between the smallest and biggest filters to use just them as an example.

 

[HermanTX]

Middle bidder and low bidder have mostly very good ratings online and just a few not so good ones that may or may not have been pandemic related problems. Highest bidder is well known as the best but most expensive in our area. Only stellar reviews found online, but not sure if businesses can scrub them these days.

Suggest you ask for references from the top 2 builders you like and then physically go see their work and ask the owner how the build process worked out, ie. time schedule, change orders, payment intervals, etc. I do not trust online reviews, unfortunately we have to use them on some purchases such as Amazon, but with a big investment, I would make an effort to physically see the work and hear from a client. Unfortunately, you may only get references from "good" clients but at least you get to see the product.

Be sure to negotiate payment plan, hold at least 10% back until the whole project is completed - water in pool and tested, all punch list items completed, etc.

 

[Newdude]

Hey Juls and Welcome !!!

I LOVE your gameplan. Builders like designing their own pool, but then you are comparing 3 different outcomes. Builder A might be the best to build pool C but is never given the chance. I greatly prefer having your plan first, then seeing who can do what with it.

I did similar to you, only moving much closer. The builders subs were top notch and it was a no brainer to use him again. The subs absolutely SUCKED the 2nd time around and although the builder was still awesome and super quick to address any issues, his hands were tied with only other crummy crews available to step in. (Build thread in my sig).

Even after doing your due diligence, so much is left to chance that it can still go either way. Here's to hoping lady luck is on your side.

 

[Suburbanjuls]

Good suggestions... I do have some more info from the highest price builder.

Pool
18x36 Shotcrete method pool-no mention of what kind of rebar but all cleanup is listed in the contract.
water depth 3.5'-8'
Automation: OmniPL automation panel with TcellS340 40k g. salt and mobile app
Lights: 4 LED Color Logic 320-Programmable color
Pump: Hayward HCP3020VSP(Tri-Star XL)
Filter: Hayward HCF7030C
Booster Pump: Hayward HSP30060
Robot cleaner: Pentair Racer LS
Heater: Hayward HDF400 gas
Spa
6x8 interior dimensions
18" at bench and 42" at footwell
covered spillway into pool
1 LED color logic 320
shared pump/filter/heater with pool
8 single stream hydrotherapy jets w/forced air induction
Hayward 2HP air

From looking at Hayward's website it seems that this is listed as a commercial pump, stating "The TriStar XL is a game changer for large residential pools, feature-rich pools or complex pool pad configurations". I am wondering if this may be overkill for a what I am considering a pretty basic pool/spa combo.

For the automation-I don't want an app, and likely won't use one. In my experience these types of things are glitchy. If someone has a good experience with this one, I will take advice. What I found more useful is a remote that would be available for anyone to use. My(mostly grown) children can have friends over and operate the spa and lights as well as older parents who would be visiting or house-sitting. I will get the model number for this one, but based on the description I think it is the HLPLUS4. That one comes with the AquaPod handheld remote, wireless rechargeable full function tabletop, floating spa side remote, and wired spa side. Am I too much of a luddite that I just want one tabletop and floating remote? Anything more just seems like more cost for equipment that I won't use. But maybe these bundles are economies of scale?

I will ask them to increase water depth at shallow end to 4', also thinking to reduce to 7.5' in deep end to compensate for price but not sure if that is worth it.

It does seem like the cartridge is plenty big enough.

We had the same size gas heater in CA, so when I asked if this would be enough in our climate, I was told yes, and given an $8400 price for an optional heat pump. I will reach out to some references to see if they felt they needed the added heat pump in this area. That is the kind of thing that can be added later, if we think it is needed I guess.

If I consider a heat pump for later, I would need to make sure I am taking that into consideration when placing my equipment pad. They want it within 40' of the pool or additional fees. Ideally I would have it behind the garage but that is uphill, and a bit further than 40'. I can put it downhill toward the garden area and that will be within 40', but isn't it better to be on the same grade?

I thought 4 lights are too many for the pool, but I can remove one for $580 less.

We had 6 jets before in this same size spa, but I don't think I would change this. More is always better!

Regarding the payment schedule... Here is the breakdown, not sure if they will accept any negotiation on this point, but I will try my best.
20%-upon signed contract
20% completion of excavation
25% at day of shotcrete
25% upon completion of tile and plumbing to equipment location
10%-$2500-at day of plaster
$2500-at final walk through

Thanks all!

 

[Mdragger88]

*One note - just the pool alone (18x36) not including the spa is approximately 28k gallons.
We recommend that you get a swcg that is rated for at least 2x’s your pool’s volume so that you don’t have to run it as much to get the fc you need, have plenty of wiggle room & this in turn will mean your expensive cell (with its finite 10k hr lifespan) lives longer in people years.
Pentair has a 60k gallon rated cell. (ic60)
Hayward does not.
Something to consider when choosing brands.

 

[Suburbanjuls]

Well I didn't think this is where we would have ended up, but we are choosing the most expensive pool builder. We found some things out about the two lower prices builders that have really scared us away from them. We did also find an unhappy customer with the expensive PB, but it was due to timing and availability of items and they couldn't get into their new build because of it. We are in the same boat, trying to finish home and pool and won't be able to get into the house until pool is done as well. However, being able to converse about this and discuss how they are setting the project up so that all materials are in before hole is dug and steering us away from items that are custom order with long lead times makes us feel better. Other companies got extremely defensive and didn't want to talk about it past issues or act like it didn't happen. This says A LOT imho!
Expensive PB also used to use Pentair exclusively, but switched in 2021 after no support for product issues. I know every industry had problems exacerbated by lockdowns, etc and some companies may have experienced the exact opposite situation. Distributor support means a lot to me as we know products have failures and it is a matter of when, not if it happens that you want to not be hearing crickets when there is a problem.

 

[kit2022]

I don't have any advice regarding the bids, but just want to say that I love your plan! Especially the "future greenhouse" in the upper left corner...