Quick Question on following the process here

[IceShadow]

You have me eyeing up LED replacement bulbs for my light fixture. I'll pick one, ask the better half, she'll shoot it down as unnecessary and expensive, and she'll be right. >.>

 

[ss32000]

I think we found our issue! As soon as I got the outside cover off I saw it all. I pulled the lights out and brushed the inside light areas three times. I’ll be leaving this open and the lights out until I pass a test. Time to double the efforts as I think I’m close now. No places to hide.

 

[ss32000]

Should I replace the screws? They look brown

 

[IceShadow]

They may be brass. Probably not needed unless they’re leaving marks somewhere else.

 

[ss32000]

Team, I think I did it and got through my SLAM. Getting all that algae out of the niche for the light finally got it I think. My FC barely moved throughout the day today and I'm just waiting to get through my OCLT, but I'm not finding the brown dead algae anymore, so I'm pretty optimistic. I really appreciate this group and knowledge/help. I feel so much more confident around my pool right now.

Now I have a new issue of keeping my wife happy. She is has long term concerns that we wasted money on our chlorinator (Nature2Fusion) and that I'm using more chlorine that she wants.

 

[mgtfp]

Fingers crossed with the OCLT

I guess the point with having money wasted on the N2F you have to own, part of the learning curve.

Regarding high chlorine levels, you have to dig in and research all info on the forum and make sure you understand it all yourself, and then explain it to your wife. There's a lot from Chem Geek here on active chlorine levels, and how public pools are bad for swimsuits (I think that was one of your wife's concerns?), but not TFP pools, for example this one:

I don't have actual data on that, but anecdotal evidence supported by chemical theory. My wife swims in an indoor commercial pool over the winter 3-4 times a week that has had 1-2 ppm FC with no CYA in the water and every winter season her swimsuits get worn out where the elastic gets shot and the fabric gets thinner, basically having her need to get new swimsuits for each winter season. In our own outdoor pool with 3-6 ppm FC and 30-40 ppm CYA, her swimsuits have lasted for 9 summer swim seasons swimming almost every day though she now says she is starting to notice wear. The difference in active chlorine level between the two pools is roughly a factor of 10-20 which likely is reason for the difference. The same is true for the flakiness of her skin and frizziness of her hair between the two pools.

Obviously the answer will depend on the actual fabric of the swimsuit and frequency of use, but I'd say that roughly speaking 40 expsoure-hours in 1-2 ppm FC with no CYA is probably when the swimsuit gets too worn out (assuming she was rotating between at least a couple of swimsuits). Remember also that there is physical deterioration from wearing the suit and swimming, not just from chlorine exposure, but the difference in experiences between the two pools shows that the chlorine difference is the major factor. In our own pool with an FC that is around 10% of the CYA level the swimsuits are lasting around 900 exposure-hours or so which is somewhat better than what the chemistry would predict.

A shock level of chlorine where the FC is around 40% of the CYA level is equivalent to 0.6 ppm FC with no CYA so a swimsuit would last around 70-130 hours while at yellow/mustard algae shock level where the FC is around 60% of the CYA level and is equivalent to 1.5 ppm FC with no CYA so would last around 40 hours and be roughly similar to an indoor pool that didn't use CYA.

Note that there is another factor that is dependent on the FC level alone and not on the active chlorine level. Namely, it is the chlorine capacity or reserve to continue to react with the swimsuit after one gets out of the water and such water evaporates. In this situation, a higher FC can lead to more swimsuit wear unless one rinses their swimsuit after they get out of the pool. My wife would normally do that with her suits except on weekends when we would both be using the pool and hang out in the sun after swimming.

Here is a post where I tried to explain a while ago some of the background:

The FC/CYA thing is the one big thing to get your head around when doing TFP. It might sound daunting in the beginning to go higher than pool stores recommend, but it all makes sense.

With CYA in the water most of the chlorine is bound to the CYA and not immediately available to kill algae and bacteria, and is also not aggressive to swimmers and equipment . But once "active" chlorine gets used (by UV or killing stuff), chlorine that was bound to CYA gets released. It's like a chlorine reservoir. The chlorine bound to CYA shows up in the FC test, because while the chlorine is being "used" by the test reagents, more chlorine gets released from the CYA very quickly.

But because most of the chlorine is bound to CYA, you need a higher FC level to have enough active chlorine (called Hypochlorous Acid or HOCl) in the water to keep it sanitized and algae free.

Not adjusting the FC level, particularly at higher CYA levels, leeds sooner or later to a green swamp. That's when pool services tell their customers that they have "chlorine lock due to high TDS" or similar made up explanations without understanding what is actually going on (not enough chlorine), and drain and refill the pool.

Pool "professionals" go apoplectic about FC 6 with CYA 40, but consider FC 3 with CYA 0 to be fine - the active chlorine concentration in the second case is about 20 times higher. That's why you feel like you got bleached in a public pool, but you will hardly notice the chlorine in your pool.

Once you are at your target level (what you are currently doing with bleach), your SWG only has to top up the daily losses, maybe 2 or 3ppm per day. With enough CYA you will limit chlorine loss by UV and make the pool manageable for both, bleach and SWG.

 

[Bperry]

Fingers crossed with the OCLT

I guess the point with having money wasted on the N2F you have to own, part of the learning curve.

Regarding high chlorine levels, you have to dig in and research all info on the forum and make sure you understand it all yourself, and then explain it to your wife. There's a lot from Chem Geek here on active chlorine levels, and how public pools are bad for swimsuits (I think that was one of your wife's concerns?), but not TFP pools, for example this one:




Here is a post where I tried to explain a while ago some of the background:

Team, I think I did it and got through my SLAM. Getting all that algae out of the niche for the light finally got it I think. My FC barely moved throughout the day today and I'm just waiting to get through my OCLT, but I'm not finding the brown dead algae anymore, so I'm pretty optimistic. I really appreciate this group and knowledge/help. I feel so much more confident around my pool right now.

Now I have a new issue of keeping my wife happy. She is has long term concerns that we wasted money on our chlorinator (Nature2Fusion) and that I'm using more chlorine that she wants.

Nothing worse than wasting even MORE money on something you know is a waste of money. Consider it tuition for pool school university and that you graduated earlier than most people.

 

[mgtfp]

Effectively, you'll still be saving loads over the lifetime of the pool by not having to "fix" problems on pool store advice by adding lots of expensive potions, or draining and rebalancing the water. Mind you, problems that were created on pool "professional" advice in the first place.

 

[Bperry]

Nothing worse than wasting even MORE money on something you know is a waste of money. Consider it tuition for pool school university and that you graduated earlier than most people.

My tuition was a brand new Hayward puck chlorinator I paid to have installed about 2 weeks before discovering TFP….

 

[gingrbredman]

Now I have a new issue of keeping my wife happy. She is has long term concerns that we wasted money on our chlorinator (Nature2Fusion) and that I'm using more chlorine that she wants.

Welp, the hard truth is the N2F could probably be considered a waste of money, but in the end, how did either of you know that before you stumbled here? Pool professionals installed that, and when you are new to all this, sometimes rely on them for their "expertise" and they were wrong. It happens, but now you know the right way forward.

Regarding using more chlorine than she wants, the honest answer here is that the "higher" levels of chlorine is what got you through the SLAM, and will keep your pool trouble free. It didn't happen because of the N2F, or the pool store potions, it was old fashioned chlorine and a lot of dedication. Once you let the chorine drift down from SLAM levels, your daily maintenance of chorine will be easy, and not considered high in any way. No bathing suits being destroyed, no itchy or irritated eyes, just a trouble free pool.

The choices going forward in the short term are continued use of the pucks (bad news, bad for water) or liquid chlorine. Liquid chlorine is better for everyone in this situation. This line is really the point you make with the wife.....

When FC is balanced properly with CYA following the FC/CYA Chart, the active chlorine concentration will be high enough to kill bacteria and algae, but low enough so you will not even notice that there is chlorine in the water.

but if you really want to up the game, convert to salt! Another topic for another day I guess.

 

[Bperry]

In reality, TFP isn’t advocating higher chlorine levels, it’s the other orgs that advocate 1-4ppm of chlorine without reference to CYA levels are advocating for much lower chlorine active levels than is sanitary. The active amount of chlorine in a TFP pool is much lower than any non TFP pools. It’s just that the chlorine tests can’t distinguish between active and non active chlorine.

 

[IceShadow]

In reality, TFP isn’t advocating higher chlorine levels, it’s the other orgs that advocate 1-4ppm of chlorine without reference to CYA levels are advocating for much lower chlorine active levels than is sanitary. The active amount of chlorine in a TFP pool is much lower than any non TFP pools. It’s just that the chlorine tests can’t distinguish between active and non active chlorine.

And now that the industry is starting to acknowledge the FC/CYA relationship, their answer is "keep your CYA extremely low so it doesn't inhibit FC", not "keep your FC levels up where it'll still work for your CYA level." Which means lots of FC loss to the sun.

 

[mgtfp]

And now that the industry is starting to acknowledge the FC/CYA relationship, their answer is "keep your CYA extremely low so it doesn't inhibit FC", not "keep your FC levels up where it'll still work for your CYA level."

They picked their cherries well. They can keep selling pucks and ask their customers even sooner to drain and refill...

Which means lots of FC loss to the sun.

... and even get some extra revenue.