Intermatic Analog Time dead. Relay question

[Chunkylover54]

Hoping someone would be able to help here.

My intermatic pump timer stopped rotating so i have to keep going out to turn hit the switch manually. Instead of replacing it with the same timer, I have 2 extra [FONT=&quot]FS20Z-1 relays from a previous project that seems like it would be sufficient to replace the timer plus I can set a schedule and trigger it remotely. My question would be if this is compatible with my pump. I'm not too good with electrical things so I can't figure out how the voltage thing works. I'm probably going to get an electrician to install it just to be safe but before i call one out, I wanted to see if anyone had any experience with these or if anyone knows if this is possible first .

I have a [/FONT]Jandy phpm 1.0 pump and a Hayward H250FDN. Would I need 2 relays to handle both items? Currently, they both are wired to the same intermatic timer. It would be cool to be able to control them independently but not necessary if not possible.

Thanks!

 

[Jimrahbe]

54,

The FS20Z-1 is a 120 volt device... What voltage are you running the pumps, 120 or 220 volts? Is the current timer being feed from a GFCI breaker?

A picture of you current timer, showing the wiring with the safety shield removed would help us help you..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Chunkylover54]

54,

The FS20Z-1 is a 120 volt device... What voltage are you running the pumps, 120 or 220 volts? Is the current timer being feed from a GFCI breaker?

A picture of you current timer, showing the wiring with the safety shield removed would help us help you..

Thanks,

Jim R.

attached are the images for the sub panel, the wiring and the gfci outlet that has the wires running to the timer

thanks in advance!

 

[Jimrahbe]

54,

So it appears to me that your pumps are running off of a 240 volt GFCI... Your current timer, like it should, shuts off both legs of the 240 volts. This type of timer has a double pole switch...

Your extra relays have two problems. One, they run off of 120 volts and two, they only have a single pole relay (switch)

If you try to connect your extra relay to just once side of your 240 volts, it will pop the GFCI breaker.

You could connect the extra relay to the 120 volts being supplied by the pool light circuit breaker, but your extra relays only have single pole switch inside.. This means that you would just be able to shut off one of the two power lines to the pump. Although it would work, it violates generally accepted safety rules. Someone might think the power to the pump is off, because it is not running, but the pump would still have one hot leg (120 volts) attached.

There are ways to get around this, but I am not sure it would be worth the time or effort.

Let's see what our other members think...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Chunkylover54]

54,

So it appears to me that your pumps are running off of a 240 volt GFCI... Your current timer, like it should, shuts off both legs of the 240 volts. This type of timer has a double pole switch...

Your extra relays have two problems. One, they run off of 120 volts and two, they only have a single pole relay (switch)

If you try to connect your extra relay to just once side of your 240 volts, it will pop the GFCI breaker.

You could connect the extra relay to the 120 volts being supplied by the pool light circuit breaker, but your extra relays only have single pole switch inside.. This means that you would just be able to shut off one of the two power lines to the pump. Although it would work, it violates generally accepted safety rules. Someone might think the power to the pump is off, because it is not running, but the pump would still have one hot leg (120 volts) attached.

There are ways to get around this, but I am not sure it would be worth the time or effort.

Let's see what our other members think...

Thanks,

Jim R.

gotcha. Thanks. Any recommendations for what I'm trying to accomplish? Is the intermatic ca3750 compatible with my setup?

 

[ajw22]

gotcha. Thanks. Any recommendations for what I'm trying to accomplish? Is the intermatic ca3750 compatible with my setup?

Yes. Make sure you properly do steps 4 & 5 in the installation manual - http://homeseer.com/pdfs/guides/CA3750.pdf

You want 240V and 1x DPST

4. Move fused jumper to proper source voltage selection 120, 208, 240, or 277 VAC.
5. Set contact selector switch for desired output. (1x DPST or 2x SPST)

 

[KDpoolguy]

Are you trying to get timer to share on/off “trigger” of heater and pump? The CA3750 is a fine direct replacement, but likely not for what you’re looking to do—if I’m understanding correctly-but what if you transition to a VS pump in future?

Here’s the intermatic info page for
Your timer: T104P3
https://www.intermatic.com/en/pool-and-spa/mechanical-controls/t104p3

How to replace clock, which would be easiest inexpensive fix to get ya going. $23 on Amazon.
I disconnected mine due to VS pump (yay VS, but your setup is still effective as is.
How To Replace an Intermatic T104 Clock Motor - INYOPools.com

Look at WiOn 240v for wireless control of a 240v equipment (heater control for example)
WiOn 50054 Outdoor Wi-Fi Smart Box, Wireless Time Switch - - Amazon.com

 

[Jimrahbe]

54,

The only problem with the ca3750 is that if you want to run the two pumps separately, you will need two of them..

If you run both pumps at the same time, it will work fine if you follow Allen's post above.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Chunkylover54]

Are you trying to get timer to share on/off “trigger” of heater and pump? The CA3750 is a fine direct replacement, but likely not for what you’re looking to do—if I’m understanding correctly-but what if you transition to a VS pump in future?

Here’s the intermatic info page for
Your timer: T104P3
https://www.intermatic.com/en/pool-and-spa/mechanical-controls/t104p3

How to replace clock, which would be easiest inexpensive fix to get ya going. $23 on Amazon.
I disconnected mine due to VS pump (yay VS, but your setup is still effective as is.
How To Replace an Intermatic T104 Clock Motor - INYOPools.com

Look at WiOn 240v for wireless control of a 240v equipment (heater control for example)
WiOn 50054 Outdoor Wi-Fi Smart Box, Wireless Time Switch - - Amazon.com

Sharing the trigger is how it works currently which isn't that much of a bother BUT it would be a nice to have. Sounds like I'd need 2 units for that functionality, then. Thanks for the links. I'll check them out.

 

[KDpoolguy]

Sharing the trigger is how it works currently which isn't that much of a bother BUT it would be a nice to have. Sounds like I'd need 2 units for that functionality, then. Thanks for the links. I'll check them out.

Yes, even your heater gets power from 240v, even though you’ll see a transformer right downstream from 240v power input into heater and it’s only getting power from 2x12v=24v low voltage to control everything in the heater. You can see Posts on powering wireless triggering using 120v Wifi switches for the heater, but it’s kinda involved so let’s stick to 240v options.

I think you’re in the same boat as me as I have old school timer (now have VS pump with built in timer) and mechanical relays. You should consider automation instead of piecemealing the remote triggering using different systems. Lots of good systems for
Not much $ and some with diy installs. I’m pretty handy to install automation, but really I don’t mind moving valves and switches to use my spa. I’ve fixed electrical issues in my pool and it opened up more cans of worms and revealed previous repairs where it’s best to just stick to what’s working and my next home I can tackle automation. I like having something in this house that is still mine to control..cause I gave up the TV remote long ago .

 

[Chunkylover54]

Yes, even your heater gets power from 240v, even though you’ll see a transformer right downstream from 240v power input into heater and it’s only getting power from 2x12v=24v low voltage to control everything in the heater. You can see Posts on powering wireless triggering using 120v Wifi switches for the heater, but it’s kinda involved so let’s stick to 240v options.

I think you’re in the same boat as me as I have old school timer (now have VS pump with built in timer) and mechanical relays. You should consider automation instead of piecemealing the remote triggering using different systems. Lots of good systems for
Not much $ and some with diy installs. I’m pretty handy to install automation, but really I don’t mind moving valves and switches to use my spa. I’ve fixed electrical issues in my pool and it opened up more cans of worms and revealed previous repairs where it’s best to just stick to what’s working and my next home I can tackle automation. I like having something in this house that is still mine to control..cause I gave up the TV remote long ago .

Yea, I may do that. I wanted to really stick with zwave because I've already fully invested in the Smartthings ecosystem for about everything else in my house. It looked to me all the automation systems used different protocols. I didn't ready too much into it though so i'll have to do some more research. I may just go with the old school way like it's done currently if i can't find a Zwave or Smartthings automated system for the time being.

 

[KDpoolguy]

This thread was really interesting and mentions the 120v heater control and WiOn 240v as an inexpensive way to control using Alexa.

Alexa pool control on a shoestring budget
Alexa pool control on a shoestring budget

There are 240v zwave controls, but as you’ve found you’ll need multiple boxes to control each piece of equipment, at which point the simpler automation systems start to enter that price sphere. If you’ve started with Wink or other legacy Zwave systems it’s hard to move away, but as WiFi non-hub systems become more popular Zwave is becoming slowly disenfranchised. Zwave in my book is so much more set-and-forget and reliable, and my Honeywell Zwave alarm system is doing fantastic after almost 20 years. I’ve got over 25 wireless door/window sensors, leak sensors, motion, sirens... it’s bulletproof stuff.
In the meantime I hope you can just get the clock working on your mechanical timer if Only as a stopgap. It’s a easy diy job.