Intelliph and Intellicenter

[tradewinds]

Here's one for $440 that includes everything you need (except the timer):

Pentair Acid Tank with Tank Mounted Pump 522472

The Acid Tank with Peristaltic Pump is the easy way to store and dispense acid into your pool using the IntelliChem Chemical Automation System.

sunplay.com

I have ordered a few things from SunPlay without issue. I would again.

Can this be hooked up to an intellicenter without the intellichem system?

 

[tradewinds]

For the life of me I cannot seem to find any literature, videos or tutorial of how to hook up a IntelliPH with an Intellicenter with just the tank and stenner motor? Am I required to get the IntelliPH with the separate controller?

I also do not see IntelliPH as a chemical option in the intellicenter app.

 

[Dirk]

For the life of me I cannot seem to find any literature, videos or tutorial of how to hook up a IntelliPH with an Intellicenter with just the tank and stenner motor? Am I required to get the IntelliPH with the separate controller?

I also do not see IntelliPH as a chemical option in the intellicenter app.

That's because running an IntellipH (IpH) that way is not stock, not what Pentair intended.

That tank either works with IntelliChem, or the IntellipH controller. And the latter only works when an IntelliChlor (IC) is present. IC and IpH are companions, and the IpH relies on components and data that are part of IntelliChlor. The IpH and its controller is not a stand-alone solution. That's the official use as designed by Pentair.

Now that said, a few of us run our IntellipHs without the IpH controller, either with EasyTouch or IntelliCenter. We do so by bypassing the controller, and running DC voltage directly to the tank's pump, and controlling the scheduling using one of the relays of the pool automation controller.

If you'd like to know more about how that's done, just holler. But yes, it's possible.

 

[Dirk]

Oops, I always forget to check a poster's pool spec's. I see that you'll be getting an IntelliChlor. Once that is installed, the IntellipH and its controller just plug in. You can do it yourself quite easily.

But the IntellipH controller still won't run within the IntelliCenter environment. You cannot control the settings of the IntellipH controller through the IntelliCenter interface (which is why you can't find anything about that in the manuals). I suspect Pentair left out that nicety to encourage folks to spring for the more expensive IntelliChem system (which I will attempt to talk you out of if you're even considering it). So you run "everything pool" via the pool automation, except your IntellipH. That you set separately. But once you have that dialed in, it's really not a big deal. You pretty much "set it and forget it." Or at the most adjust it a couple times a year.

You can have your builder install the IntellipH system, or do it yourself. Either way, if you're considering it's purchase, I'll go over a few tips for best-practice installation.

 

[tradewinds]

Thanks @Dirk . yes, looked at the intellichem but seemed redundant with a SWG.

I also read some work you did with the high draw when IntelliPH is paired with the IC60 some soldering is required.

Please let me know what into I need.

Also, I see most ecommerce sites aren't allowed to post prices due to tradegrade. What site offers the best price?

Thanks.

 

[Dirk]

Thanks @Dirk . yes, looked at the intellichem but seemed redundant with a SWG.

Not really. You can set up the IntelliChem in two ways. One way utilizes a chlorine tank and an acid tank, the other setup utilizes an SWG and an acid tank. So an SWG wouldn't be redundant, you just wouldn't also have a chlorine tank. But that's not the reason to avoid IntelliChem. It's very expensive, overly complicated, and requires a lot of fiddling and calibrating. If you were to run an IntelliChem pool conscientiously, you'd still test manually with a good test kit once a week, to make sure the thing was working correctly. Well, I only test once a week with my IC and IpH, with no IntelliChem, and enjoy virtually the same level of automation, without the headache of running an IntelliChem. IMO, they just don't save any real amount of effort, and only add expense and something to break down.

I also read some work you did with the high draw when IntelliPH is paired with the IC60 some soldering is required. Please let me know what into I need.

Here's a post about the fix. Know that this would likely invalidate the warranty. If I was doing it again, I'd apply the first variation (I illustrate three in the post) the day after the warranty expired. Let Pentair fix it until then. That post is at the end of a very long thread about the mod's I made to my IC and IpH setup. I wanted to run my IntellipH in the winter, which doesn't work out-of-the-box (when the pool water gets too cold). In Florida, this won't likely be an issue for you. #56

Also note that, at least at some point, Pentair recommended not pairing an IntellipH with an IC60. I don't know if doing so would affect the warranty. That's something to discuss directly with Pentair Sales Dept. If it does negate the IntellipH warranty, then I'd do the fix on day one. Ironically, they know about the problem, but instead of fixing it, they just tell people not to do it! (Like the joke: "Doc, it hurts when I do this..." Doc says "Then don't do that!"

Also, I see most ecommerce sites aren't allowed to post prices due to tradegrade. What site offers the best price?

I couldn't say. I haven't shopped for one in years. You could scour the 'net for a good deal, then post here to see if anyone has anything bad to say about the vendor. There are some shady ones out there.

I bought mine on Amazon in June 2018 for about $500. It's almost $900 now. It looks like you're buying directly from Pentair on Amazon, but I don't think it's actually them. That'd be another question for Pentair Sales.

 

[Dirk]

I just sniffed around a bit on line. I think I found what you did: no one is shipping the thing, in store only and trade grade. One site declared that is Pentair's policy. Perhaps that's how they are handling this item now. Again, instead of fixing it, they want you to pay more for it and then even more to have it installed? Just ranting, I don't actually know.

But I'd get another one, no matter the cost. The convenience is worth it to me. My pool slams acid like koolaid, and I'd have to handle it every other day. No thanks.

 

[tradewinds]

Thanks for all the info and feedback. Indeed the price has gone up. I really wish I knew about this when I was researching for the pool build as I would have had the builder throw one in. (Btw...Just had Pentair send out Pinch a Penny to fix an actuator that somehow got a ton of water inside it. Really bizarre as I couldn't seem to find how it got in or how to get it out. Less than 6 months and already a warranty swap out needed. Not that the intellibrite are any better perhaps, but I am very glad I did the research and ensure the ever failing globebrite which Pentair also seems unwilling to fix was not put in as the builder had planned on using).

I've inquire with a few places online to see if they have and their shipping price. I don't think I'll land one close to $500 unfortunately.

 

[Dirk]

I got a lemon IntelliBrite. I had it replaced under warranty. The guy that did it claimed it was "gen 1" with a weak copper heatsink. The "gen 2" had a redesigned thicker heat sink. It's not given me any grief since, some 6ish years later. I don't know how accurate that diagnosis was, but that was the story I was given.

 

[tradewinds]

@Dirk what do you think of getting the tank and controller separate for a better price. I'm seeing some open box tank with stenner pump, but other than the controller what are all the parts needed?

 

[Dirk]

@Dirk what do you think of getting the tank and controller separate for a better price. I'm seeing some open box tank with stenner pump, but other than the controller what are all the parts needed?

I don't know what that would do to the warranty.

Let's see, you need:
- tank
- pump (there are models that are tank and pump together)
- 1/4" acid-resistive tubing
- injector
- hardware or fittings to install injector into plumbing (there are two ways to do that)
- controller

I think that's it. The cable to plug the controller into the power supply is attached to the controller. The cable to plug the pump into the controller is attached to the pump.

If you buy a tank with no pump, that complicates the list. You'd need to make sure the pump you add is compatible, and has a compatible cable.

The IntelliChlor plugs into the IpH controller. Then the controller plugs into where the IC plugged in. That is either a stand-alone power supply, or a Pentair pool automation controller (which has the IC power supply built in).

I once added up the parts necessary to make a Pentair Rebel work in a pool, and it was cheaper than the package price! So what you're contemplating might be possible.

 

[tradewinds]

If I can find the controller, I think a lot of tanks with stenner is usually being sold separately either as open box or take offs.

 

[tradewinds]

Don't suspect anyone on TFP has tried one if these?

pH Controller and Dosing Pump BL100 - Hanna Instruments

The BL100 pH Controller and Dosing Pump is a system engineered for maintaining the pH of swimming pools, hot tubs, and spas.

www.hannainst.com

 

[Dirk]

Don't suspect anyone on TFP has tried one if these?

pH Controller and Dosing Pump BL100 - Hanna Instruments

The BL100 pH Controller and Dosing Pump is a system engineered for maintaining the pH of swimming pools, hot tubs, and spas.

www.hannainst.com

Here's the rub, or pros and cons:

The IpH controller doesn't just share the power supply of the IC, it "talks" to the IC, and can control it. The IpH also monitors the IC. It displays the IC's settings, and can be used to adjust the IC's output setting in 1% increments. A stand alone IC's output can only be adjusted to 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100% increments. If a Pentair pool automation controller is present, then it will override the IpH's control and allow 1% adjustments within the pool automation controller's interface.

But more importantly, the IpH and IC combo provides some important safeties:

(1) Whether a pool automation controller is present or not, when the IpH controller is ready to dispense, if first shuts down the IC's chlorine production, and then dispenses acid, and then restores the IC's functions. This is a major safety consideration, so that the IpH is not dispensing acid into your plumbing and pool while the IC is also dispensing chlorine into the plumbing and pool. The two can combine to produce a toxic gas. You would not want to be in the pool while both acid and chlorine are mixing together in your plumbing and being pumped into your pool through the returns!

(2) Because the IpH and IC share the same power supply, which is supposed to be wired such that it is not powered up unless the main filter pump is running, neither the IpH nor the IC can inject acid or chlorine into your pool unless there is power going to the pump.

(3) As a backup safety to #2, the IpH controller is also monitoring the IC's flow switch, and will not dispense acid if the flow switch is not closed (if the water is not actually moving through the plumbing). In a pump failure scenario, it's possible the IpH and IC could be powered up but the pump is not actually spinning. Without that flow switch safeguard, either the IC or the IpH would happily dispense chlorine gas or acid into a pipe full of stagnant water. This could result in a major catastrophe, even an explosion.

(4) Once the output settings of the the IpH and IC are established (a simple % number for each), then the IC and IpH do their thing throughout the runtime schedule. The IC dispenses every five minutes, the IpH dispenses once an hour. Which means your FC and pH are really stable throughout the runtime schedule, which is typically your daytime swim time hours.

If you go with a third party pump, you're going to want to recreate all of the safeties and niceties the combo provides, which means wiring it correctly to the filter pump, a flow switch somewhere in the plumbing wired in correctly, a timer that can not only dispense regularly throughout the day, but somehow not dispense while your IntelliChlor is producing or the water isn't flowing, etc!

While it's possible to use a third party pump and timer, you're never going to get to the level of safety and convenience provided by the Pentair combo.

So, the cons...

(1) The IpH also monitors the IC's temperature sensor, and when the pool water gets too cold for the IC to produce chlorine, the IpH will not dispense acid. Why Pentair chose this "feature" is a mystery. I circumvented this issue with a trick of wiring, which I describe in the link I referenced above. My IC does stop producing in the winter, but my IpH dispenses all year long. In Florida, as long as your pool temp stays above ~53°, this won't be an issue for you.

(2) Because the two are so closely tied together, and share the same power supply, if something goes kaflooey with any of the three (IC, IpH or power supply), then you lose everything until fixed.

(3) The over-current problem with the IpH controller is real, and will very likely cause you some trouble with an IC60. We devised a fix for it, but you'd have to deal with that at some point, as I described previously.

The IpH system has its flaws, but, IMO, they are far outweighed by the great engineering Pentair did combining the IC and IpH functions.

 

[tradewinds]

Thank you for the detailed pros/cons summary. I'll continue to look for an IntelliPH system. I may need to get my PB to see what these places are charging under tradegrade program.

 

[tradewinds]

I finally got an IntellipH delivered today.

Anyone got some pics or suggestion how this is situated on the pad and how the breather hose is ran away (in PVC conduit?)

 

[Dirk]

The "breather hose" you mentioned is supposed to carry acid fumes away from the tank, and the tank is supposed to be air tight (except for the breather). But if you have the option, install the tank as far away as possible from your pad and anything metal (the motor cable determines the max distance). That said, mine is on my pad and inches from my heater, which doesn't seem to suffer too badly. I might be getting a little extra corrosion on my pad because of the IpH, but that's hard to determine for sure. If it is contributing, it's not by much.

I ran my vent tube (breather hose), from the tank to the other side of a vinyl fence. I sloped it gradually downhill its entire length, ending about an inch above dirt. The end is as far away from anything metal as possible, and on the other side of a fence from my pool equipment. This is pretty much ideal. Look out for gate hinges and gutter downspouts and window hardware, even nails, etc. Anything metal. You don't have to go crazy if you get decent air circulation (like a breeze), just be aware of the effects acid fumes have on metal and keep the two separate as much as is reasonably possible.

I sloped the tube, so that acid fumes cannot condense and form a blocking "puddle" in a dip in the tube. I sloped it downward so that rain or sprinkler water cannot get into the end of the tube and travel to the tank. These might be unnecessary precautions, but it was just as easy to implement them, so I figured why not.

I bolted the IpH to my concrete pad. It is a tank of acid, after all, and it's prudent to protect it from falling over, by earthquake or pet or sneaky child.

Situate the tank so that you can easily access the pump motor, physically and visually. They need annual maintenance, so be sure you can get to it easily. You can generally hear it when it's pumping, but being able to watch it spin can be useful.

Situate the tank so you can easily observe the level of acid in the tank, so you know when to refill. If you can easily see it, then you'll get into the habit of looking at it every time you walk by. I've let mine go dry a couple times. I don't think it suffered any, it just stopped dosing acid and my pH spiked. The tank location needs to be accessible for filling too, to be able to remove the lid and pour in acid. You don't want to have to perform a high-wire act to get to the tank while handling acid.

Locate the injector in a safe spot in your plumbing. They're plastic, and not particularly sturdy. If you tripped on it I expect it wouldn't take much to snap it right off. Run its tube along plumbing pipe and secure it well. Don't leave any big loops that you could snag with your foot while working around your pad.

When you connect the two tubes to the pump motor housing, carefully observe the in and out. I got mine mixed up, because (to me) they are not positioned logically. Took me quite a while to figure out why my IpH wasn't pumping anything!

I screwed my injector into a PVC tee that had a threaded port as one leg of the tee. I didn't use the saddle they provide. I don't know that one is better than the other. I just didn't want to use, or see, the clamping bands and the o-ring (just my preference). But installing the tee, if even possible, is a much bigger task. This guy:

There is some debate about the ideal location for the injector. Some say just before the SWG (Pentair's manual does, too. Mine is.), others say the acid is not good for the SWG, so the injector should be after the SWG. Either way, it's after the filter and any heaters. It's either last before the pool, or second to last.

Congrat's on your new IpH. You're going to really appreciate it once you get it installed and dialed in.

 

[tradewinds]

Thank you for the detailed reply. Does adding before the SWG reduce the need to do the maintenance acid wash?

Are you using yours with the controller that came with it or you mentioned you had let the intellicenter relay control it?

Everything around my pool pad has metal especially my HVAC unit. A bit concerned how much that would get affected. Is there a number feet where things are "safe" if some leak were to develop?

 

[tradewinds]

So, I reached out to Pentair and they do not seem to have any issues with an IC-60 and ipH. They asked for the firmware of what the app showed before stating that therefore not sure if being on a specific minimum version means the over current issue was fixed?

 

[tradewinds]

Locate the injector in a safe spot in your plumbing. They're plastic, and not particularly sturdy. If you tripped on it I expect it wouldn't take much to snap it right off. Run its tube along plumbing pipe and secure it well. Don't leave any big loops that you could snag with your foot while working around your pad.


I screwed my injector into a PVC tee that had a threaded port as one leg of the tee. I didn't use the saddle they provide. I don't know that one is better than the other. I just didn't want to use, or see, the clamping bands and the o-ring (just my preference). But installing the tee, if even possible, is a much bigger task. This guy:

There is some debate about the ideal location for the injector. Some say just before the SWG (Pentair's manual does, too. Mine is.), others say the acid is not good for the SWG, so the injector should be after the SWG. Either way, it's after the filter and any heaters. It's either last before the pool, or second to last.

Is this a good location for installing the tee for the injector? Vertically as shown? The intellichlor will go where the dummy holder is currently.@Dirk