Conflicting Start Up & Plaster Care Instructions Need Feedback

[parkinsmith]

I have received some conflicting info from PB regarding the start up process for Stonescapes plaster which also has glass beads in it ( this is being done next week ) start up equipment settings /chemicals. 15,000 gal pool /salt
My Equipment:
Filter: Hayward Pro Series S310T2 High Rate Sand Filter/ Glass Media. Pump: Hayward Tristar VS 950 230V 2.70 THP Variable Speed, SWG: Hayward TCELL 925. Auto Chlorine/Bromine Feeder Pentair Model 320. Aqua Cal Heat /Cool

I have done some research and the PB approach seems to be a bit conflicted from my research. They like to cut corners. I am hoping to get some feedback on the following:

1. I learned that I need to brush the plaster at least twice a day for the first few weeks which is my plan . ( PB told me to put the robot in and just brush once a day ) I know better than to put a robot in a pool on new plaster . I need to wait three weeks for that and do my 2-3x a day brushing correct ?
2. I asked PB how much I need to backwash or basically how do I get all the dust out from brushing the pool as I refuse to use the robot at first. They told me to use the handheld vacuum on a pole that connects into the skimmer ? Can that be right? Why would I want to push a vacuum on wheels across the new plaster ? How does the dust get out of the pool? How do I know when to backwash ? What is the correct and best process for clearing all the plaster dust debris from the pool during the first few weeks?
3. Right after acid wash and before or during fill should any chemicals be added to insure no staining on plaster etc?
4. It is likely two days will go by after fill before they come back out to start the equipment , what do I need to do during that time ? Is that too long to wait ? It is crazy hot here in Central Texas . On the NPT plaster start up they suggest adding sequestrant right after the pool is filled, should I do this? If so does the equipment have to be on in order to do this?
5. I also understand I can not add salt at the start , I thought it was best to wait 30 days before I should add salt? PB told me they will add it after two weeks , is this correct ?
6. PB will start equipment and do the first chemicals. I want to be able to check them on how they do the chemicals and set up the pump etc. what can you guys tell me about that and to watch for ? I know the pump will run 24/7. What would be the correct speeds for the first several weeks of my pool start up ? I asked them what they will use instead of salt for the first few weeks , they said that I have an IN LINE chlorinator and they will put tabs in it . I am not familiar with that, any insight ?
I would appreciate any guidance on these start up questions, I am trying to learn as much as I can through the TFP pool school. I just want to be able to check what they are doing as I do not want to be set up for failure.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

1. I learned that I need to brush the plaster at least twice a day for the first few weeks which is my plan . ( PB told me to put the robot in and just brush once a day ) I know better than to put a robot in a pool on new plaster . I need to wait three weeks for that and do my 2-3x a day brushing correct ? YES! YES! YES!

2. I asked PB how much I need to backwash or basically how do I get all the dust out from brushing the pool as I refuse to use the robot at first. They told me to use the handheld vacuum on a pole that connects into the skimmer ? Can that be right? Why would I want to push a vacuum on wheels across the new plaster ? How does the dust get out of the pool? How do I know when to backwash ? What is the correct and best process for clearing all the plaster dust debris from the pool during the first few weeks? The filter is what traps the dust. You should note the pressure gauge after you start up the pool pump up...that's your "clean pressure" and you normally backwash when that pressure goes up 20 to 25% higher. I prefer sand in a sand filter, so I can't say how well glass filter material will work.

3. Right after acid wash and before or during fill should any chemicals be added to insure no staining on plaster etc?Often builders will add a sequestrant to help avoid any staining on new plaster. Its just a one time addition.

4. It is likely two days will go by after fill before they come back out to start the equipment , what do I need to do during that time ? Is that too long to wait ? Add some liquid chlorine to the water and mix it in (if your pump is running) or just mix by hand with a broom. And also put x amount of granular CYA in a tied off sock in the skimmer (if pump running, run 24/7 till dissolved) or just hang over the pool by a stick in front of a return, but don't let it touch the wall of the pool. You want 30ppm CYA and 5ppm FC.

It is crazy hot here in Central Texas . On the NPT plaster start up they suggest adding sequestrant right after the pool is filled, should I do this? If so does the equipment have to be on in order to do this? Ask your builder to do this on filling or to give it to you, but yes, you want to do it.

5. I also understand I can not add salt at the start , I thought it was best to wait 30 days before I should add salt? PB told me they will add it after two weeks , is this correct ? Right, no salt for a month. And when you do add salt, make sure the SWG is turned OFF for the day, and only turn it on the next day when the salt has had time to totally dissolve and be mixed in. Brushing it around helps.

6. PB will start equipment and do the first chemicals. I want to be able to check them on how they do the chemicals and set up the pump etc. what can you guys tell me about that and to watch for ? I know the pump will run 24/7. What would be the correct speeds for the first several weeks of my pool start up ? Ask to be there and watch what the add, or ask to do it yourself if they leave it to you. They should just be adding chlorine and CYA, and the sequestrant. Take note how much they add, esp for the CYA.

I asked them what they will use instead of salt for the first few weeks , they said that I have an IN LINE chlorinator and they will put tabs in it . I am not familiar with that, any insight ? As a new pool owner and unsure of things we prefer you use LIQUID Chlorine as puck use can add more CYA than you will want in the water. Pucks don't dissolve immediately, so Liquid Chlorine will work immediately. And you'll use your pool test kit to measure the FC the next day and add it daily until the salt system takes over. You'll be following the FC/CYA Levels Chart and PoolMath.

I would appreciate any guidance on these start up questions, I am trying to learn as much as I can through the TFP pool school. I just want to be able to check what they are doing as I do not want to be set up for failure. Find out how long the PB will take care of the pool? You don't want to duplicate anything, but some just fill and are never seen again?

AND most importantly read the plaster company's guide and follow it as that is what your warranty is based on.

Plaster Installation and Maintenance - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Plaster Start-Up Guides - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Maddie

 

[Britali]

I do not have a plaster pool but have been reading up to prepare. This is a good resource.

Start-up New Plaster

The first few months are the most criticle for a newly plastered pool. We're here to share best practices to ensure the plaster will last for many years.

www.troublefreepool.com

All that dust should go into your filter. NORMALLY, you want to backwash your sand filter when the pressure goes up 25% but may need the plaster experts to chime in on whether backwashing & adding water on new plaster is ok.

 

[ajw22]

likely two days will go by after fill before they come back out to start the equipment , what do I need to do during that time ? Is that too long to wait ? Add some liquid chlorine to the water and mix it in (if your pump is running) or just mix by hand with a broom. And also put x amount of granular CYA in a tied off sock in the skimmer (if pump running, run 24/7 till dissolved) or just hang over the pool by a stick in front of a return, but don't let it touch the wall of the pool. You want 30ppm CYA and 5ppm FC.

Plaster startup guides recommend NO CYA until Day 4 and to keep FC 3 ppm.

Higher FC during the startup can bleach the color out of the plaster.

6. PB will start equipment and do the first chemicals. I want to be able to check them on how they do the chemicals and set up the pump etc. what can you guys tell me about that and to watch for ? I know the pump will run 24/7. What would be the correct speeds for the first several weeks of my pool start up ? Ask to be there and watch what the add, or ask to do it yourself if they leave it to you. They should just be adding chlorine and CYA, and the sequestrant. Take note how much they add, esp for the CYA.

CYA should not be added until Day 4.

You'll be following the FC/CYA Levels Chart and PoolMath.

After your 30 day startup is complete you transition to TFP recommended level.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

RIGHT!!! Nix the above.... sorry. Follow start up instructions!!

 

[parkinsmith]

1. I learned that I need to brush the plaster at least twice a day for the first few weeks which is my plan . ( PB told me to put the robot in and just brush once a day ) I know better than to put a robot in a pool on new plaster . I need to wait three weeks for that and do my 2-3x a day brushing correct ? YES! YES! YES!

2. I asked PB how much I need to backwash or basically how do I get all the dust out from brushing the pool as I refuse to use the robot at first. They told me to use the handheld vacuum on a pole that connects into the skimmer ? Can that be right? Why would I want to push a vacuum on wheels across the new plaster ? How does the dust get out of the pool? How do I know when to backwash ? What is the correct and best process for clearing all the plaster dust debris from the pool during the first few weeks? The filter is what traps the dust. You should note the pressure gauge after you start up the pool pump up...that's your "clean pressure" and you normally backwash when that pressure goes up 20 to 25% higher. I prefer sand in a sand filter, so I can't say how well glass filter material will work.

3. Right after acid wash and before or during fill should any chemicals be added to insure no staining on plaster etc?Often builders will add a sequestrant to help avoid any staining on new plaster. Its just a one time addition. The PB wont be back for about 2 days after fill and the eqipment will not be on until they come back , is it ok to wait until the come back for this to be added?

4. It is likely two days will go by after fill before they come back out to start the equipment , what do I need to do during that time ? Is that too long to wait ? Add some liquid chlorine to the water and mix it in (if your pump is running) or just mix by hand with a broom. (How much should I add for this step , teh eqipment will not be on ) And also put x amount of granular CYA in a tied off sock in the skimmer (if pump running, run 24/7 till dissolved) or just hang over the pool by a stick in front of a return, but don't let it touch the wall of the pool. You want 30ppm CYA and 5ppm FC. ( pump wont be on until PB comes back , does equip need to be on in order to do the CYA ?)

It is crazy hot here in Central Texas . On the NPT plaster start up they suggest adding sequestrant right after the pool is filled, should I do this? If so does the equipment have to be on in order to do this? Ask your builder to do this on filling or to give it to you, but yes, you want to do it.

5. I also understand I can not add salt at the start , I thought it was best to wait 30 days before I should add salt? PB told me they will add it after two weeks , is this correct ? Right, no salt for a month. And when you do add salt, make sure the SWG is turned OFF for the day, and only turn it on the next day when the salt has had time to totally dissolve and be mixed in. Brushing it around helps.

6. PB will start equipment and do the first chemicals. I want to be able to check them on how they do the chemicals and set up the pump etc. what can you guys tell me about that and to watch for ? I know the pump will run 24/7. What would be the correct speeds for the first several weeks of my pool start up ? Ask to be there and watch what the add, or ask to do it yourself if they leave it to you. They should just be adding chlorine and CYA, and the sequestrant. Take note how much they add, esp for the CYA.

I asked them what they will use instead of salt for the first few weeks , they said that I have an IN LINE chlorinator and they will put tabs in it . I am not familiar with that, any insight ? As a new pool owner and unsure of things we prefer you use LIQUID Chlorine as puck use can add more CYA than you will want in the water. Pucks don't dissolve immediately, so Liquid Chlorine will work immediately. And you'll use your pool test kit to measure the FC the next day and add it daily until the salt system takes over. You'll be following the FC/CYA Levels Chart and PoolMath. ( When PB comes to do all this should I jus tell them not to use the pucks and put in the liquid , how can I find out how much I need for start up ?_)

I would appreciate any guidance on these start up questions, I am trying to learn as much as I can through the TFP pool school. I just want to be able to check what they are doing as I do not want to be set up for failure. Find out how long the PB will take care of the pool? You don't want to duplicate anything, but some just fill and are never seen again? ( they will be sending a pool company for 4 weeks as part of the contract to do chemicals BUT I am learning so I can keep watch , just a lot to learn but working on it

AND most importantly read the plaster company's guide and follow it as that is what your warranty is based on.

Plaster Installation and Maintenance - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Plaster Start-Up Guides - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Maddie

WOW GREAT INFO / THANKS ( I put sone follow up questions in blue )

 

[parkinsmith]

RIGHT!!! Nix the above.... sorry. Follow start up instructions!!

will do thank you !

 

[ajw22]

1. I learned that I need to brush the plaster at least twice a day for the first few weeks which is my plan . ( PB told me to put the robot in and just brush once a day ) I know better than to put a robot in a pool on new plaster . I need to wait three weeks for that and do my 2-3x a day brushing correct ?

The more often you brush the better. If you can hit it 2-3X a day it will stir up the palster dust and get it into the filter quicker. And brushing keeps the palster dust from sticking to the pool surfaces.

Why no wheeled cleaner for first 30 days? Plaster is sufficiently hard once the pool is full of water. Pool cleaners can be installed and utilized after about two days if there is no plaster dust forming. The reason that tracks develop is usually from plaster dust being "packed down" by the pool cleaner wheels and then not removed by brushing. So it can look like an "indention" (and discolored) but it is not an indention. Brushing afterwards can help prevent the plaster dust from sticking on the plaster.

2. I asked PB how much I need to backwash or basically how do I get all the dust out from brushing the pool as I refuse to use the robot at first. They told me to use the handheld vacuum on a pole that connects into the skimmer ? Can that be right? Why would I want to push a vacuum on wheels across the new plaster ? How does the dust get out of the pool? How do I know when to backwash ? What is the correct and best process for clearing all the plaster dust debris from the pool during the first few weeks?

As others have said your filter captures the plaster dust.

3. Right after acid wash and before or during fill should any chemicals be added to insure no staining on plaster etc?

A sequestrant is often added to prevent metal staining.

4. It is likely two days will go by after fill before they come back out to start the equipment , what do I need to do during that time ? Is that too long to wait ? It is crazy hot here in Central Texas . On the NPT plaster start up they suggest adding sequestrant right after the pool is filled, should I do this? If so does the equipment have to be on in order to do this?

Discuss with your PB the timing of the equipment startup.

5. I also understand I can not add salt at the start , I thought it was best to wait 30 days before I should add salt? PB told me they will add it after two weeks , is this correct ?

When Should Salt be Added? In our industry, there seems to be some consensus to wait 30 days before adding salt to new plaster pools, yet some say it is okay to add salt within a couple of days of filling the pool. Who is right? This thread describes why it appears that the recommendation to wait 30 days before adding any salt is appropriate for most plaster pools, including quartz and pebble pools.

6. PB will start equipment and do the first chemicals. I want to be able to check them on how they do the chemicals and set up the pump etc. what can you guys tell me about that and to watch for ? I know the pump will run 24/7. What would be the correct speeds for the first several weeks of my pool start up ?

About 2200-2400 RPM should give you good skimming and filtering.

I asked them what they will use instead of salt for the first few weeks , they said that I have an IN LINE chlorinator and they will put tabs in it . I am not familiar with that, any insight ?

Tabs slowly dissolve and add chlorine, CYA, and acid.

We prefer to add the chemicals individually so you can control the dosage.

Use Liquid Chlorine - Liquid Chlorine - Further Reading

Muriatic acid - Recommended Pool Chemicals

And dry stabilizer added using the sock method.

I do not want to be set up for failure.

You can't fail. Plaster pools can stand a lot of abuse during startups. You will do fine.

 

[Toxophilite]

2. I asked PB how much I need to backwash or basically how do I get all the dust out from brushing the pool as I refuse to use the robot at first. They told me to use the handheld vacuum on a pole that connects into the skimmer ? Can that be right? Why would I want to push a vacuum on wheels across the new plaster ? How does the dust get out of the pool? How do I know when to backwash ? What is the correct and best process for clearing all the plaster dust debris from the pool during the first few weeks?

When you brush, push it all towards your drain. They want it to stay away from and out of your heater core where it will cause issue, so out of pool and pool water and into filter is where it goes. As stated above, your filter gauge will tell you when the filter needs clearing.

 

[ajw22]

They want it to stay away from and out of your heater core where it will cause issue,

Plaster dust will not cause a problem as long as the heater is not run.

The filter is before the heater so most plaster dust should not get to the heater.

Why no heater use for first 30 days? With new plaster there is a lot of plaster dust in the water and the pH is usually very high. When you heat water the potential for scale formation in the heater increases significantly. The actual timeframe for waiting to use the heater has no real merit. As long as the plaster dust is under control and the pH is in range there is no reason not to use it. Your risk of rushing to use the heater is scale clogging up the heater coil.

 

[parkinsmith]

Plaster dust will not cause a problem as long as the heater is not run.

The filter is before the heater so most plaster dust should not get to the heater.

Why no heater use for first 30 days? With new plaster there is a lot of plaster dust in the water and the pH is usually very high. When you heat water the potential for scale formation in the heater increases significantly. The actual timeframe for waiting to use the heater has no real merit. As long as the plaster dust is under control and the pH is in range there is no reason not to use it. Your risk of rushing to use the heater is scale clogging up the heater coil.

Great advice , no plans to turn on the heater.

 

[parkinsmith]

When you brush, push it all towards your drain. They want it to stay away from and out of your heater core where it will cause issue, so out of pool and pool water and into filter is where it goes. As stated above, your filter gauge will tell you when the filter needs clearing.

When you say teh pressure gauge will tell me when to clear the filter , how is the Hayward sand with glass media filter cleared ?

 

[ajw22]

Why did you decide to get the glass media in the sand filter?

Sand has been around for millions of years. TFP recommends using pool sand. There is no need for an alternative media like glass.

Sand Filter Use and Care - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[PoolStored]

When you say teh pressure gauge will tell me when to clear the filter , how is the Hayward sand with glass media filter cleared ?

To clear a sand filter, you turn the pump off. Move the multi-port valve (MPV) to backwash, turn the filter on, run the pump until the sight glass gets "dirty," then turns clear. Turn the pump off. Move the MPV to "rinse," and run until the sight glass goes from dirty to clear. Turn pump off, turn the MPV to "filter," and turn pump back on. Note the filter pressure, this is your "clean pressure." When your filter pressure rises to 25% above your "clean pressure," it is time to backwash again. Rinse and repeat.

If your filter "clean pressure" is 10, backwash when it gets to 12.5.

 

[parkinsmith]

To clear a sand filter, you turn the pump off. Move the multi-port valve (MPV) to backwash, turn the filter on, run the pump until the sight glass gets "dirty," then turns clear. Turn the pump off. Move the MPV to "rinse," and run until the sight glass goes from dirty to clear. Turn pump off, turn the MPV to "filter," and turn pump back on. Note the filter pressure, this is your "clean pressure." When your filter pressure rises to 25% above your "clean pressure," it is time to backwash again. Rinse and repeat.

If your filter "clean pressure" is 10, backwash when it gets to 12.5.

THANK YOU !!!!!

 

[parkinsmith]

The more often you brush the better. If you can hit it 2-3X a day it will stir up the palster dust and get it into the filter quicker. And brushing keeps the palster dust from sticking to the pool surfaces.

Why no wheeled cleaner for first 30 days? Plaster is sufficiently hard once the pool is full of water. Pool cleaners can be installed and utilized after about two days if there is no plaster dust forming. The reason that tracks develop is usually from plaster dust being "packed down" by the pool cleaner wheels and then not removed by brushing. So it can look like an "indention" (and discolored) but it is not an indention. Brushing afterwards can help prevent the plaster dust from sticking on the plaster.



As others have said your filter captures the plaster dust.




A sequestrant is often added to prevent metal staining.



Discuss with your PB the timing of the equipment startup.



When Should Salt be Added? In our industry, there seems to be some consensus to wait 30 days before adding salt to new plaster pools, yet some say it is okay to add salt within a couple of days of filling the pool. Who is right? This thread describes why it appears that the recommendation to wait 30 days before adding any salt is appropriate for most plaster pools, including quartz and pebble pools.



About 2200-2400 RPM should give you good skimming and filtering.



Tabs slowly dissolve and add chlorine, CYA, and acid.

We prefer to add the chemicals individually so you can control the dosage.

Use Liquid Chlorine - Liquid Chlorine - Further Reading

Muriatic acid - Recommended Pool Chemicals

And dry stabilizer added using the sock method.



You can't fail. Plaster pools can stand a lot of abuse during startups. You will do fine.

THANK YOU for all this wonderful info ! Very much appreciated !