Concrete pool up north

[Henry Porter]

Thanks lbridge!
I will wait a bit with adding more but what do you think about may theory of starting out on a lower level than the recommended and see how it goes?

 

[lbridges]

For that answer I think you need chem geek, but I think an experiment that starts out low on CYA is a good thing.

In my area (lat 28.10), the sun is pretty intense. I started out with CYA at 40 (mostly due to an error by the PB) and found I had to run the Pentair Intellichlor IC-40 unit at a 60% duty cycle. Added CYA to 60ppm and I reduced the duty cycle to 30%, finally went to CYA 70 and the duty cycle is now 25%. These were all maintaining the same FC level in the pool. I don't think I will go higher in CYA since it's so hard to get rid of it.

 

[chem geek]

You can certainly start out with a lower CYA level and see your daily FC usage (or SWG on-time to achieve a constant FC level). I would start out with at least 30 ppm -- anything less isn't going to help enough. I suspect that even in your northern clime, you will still need around 50 ppm or more if your pool is in full sun most of the day. Experiment away!

lbridges, you said that you were maintaining the same FC level in the pool, but did you mean the appropriate FC level for the CYA level so you were raising your FC target as your CYA level got higher?

 

[Heckpools]

Those pools were build by professionals, with a crew of 10+ guys.. and probably overs 30yrs of experience... you my friend are the winner... i wouldn't doubt yourself. The story alone is magazine worthy... the pics of the pool are just the icing on the cake.

 

[lbridges]

...lbridges, you said that you were maintaining the same FC level in the pool, but did you mean the appropriate FC level for the CYA level so you were raising your FC target as your CYA level got higher?

Nope, the PB told me I had 70ppm and I targeted the CYA value with that in mind. I trusted them instead of myself since I read so many threads saying CYA is hard to read.

Turns out the equipment guy had put in enough (through the skimmer, so it was sitting in the filter), but the pool maintenance people came along and cleaned out the filter -- slightly less than 48 hours after the CYA had been added. I asked about it, and they came back out and added more. I still wasn't seeing 70, but after two pool stores also reported 60 I asked and the equipment guy said he didn't want to over shoot. Typical communications breakdown - I added the last ten myself to hit 70.

In the 6 weeks or so since salt got added I've checked CYA ~5 times a week. I checked chlorine using the TF100 FAS/DPD, and when the chlorine went above the amount for 70ppm CYA, I turned down the SWG. I now feel reasonably confident in my CYA technique.

 

[chem geek]

Got it. So the FC was higher than it needed to be because the CYA was lower than you thought at least part of the time. That explains the rather dramatic reduction in your SWG on-time. If I were to assume that you targeted 4 ppm FC the entire time, then I can scale down as if you instead used the appropriate FC at each CYA level to see the true improvement from using a higher CYA level in spite of scaling the FC.

CYA 40; 60% duty cycle; if (4/7) the FC (2.3 ppm), then 34% duty cycle
CYA 60; 30% duty cycle; if (6/7) the FC (3.4 ppm), then 26% duty cycle
CYA 70; 25% duty cycle; FC of 4 ppm

This makes more sense as it shows that a higher CYA level will reduce the SWG on time even with the same FC/CYA ratio, but the gain isn't quite as dramatic as you were seeing because you didn't have a proportionately lower FC when the CYA was actually lower than you thought. Note that the benefit from CYA is non-linear -- there is apparently an additional CYA "shielding" effect that is in addition to CYA's protection of chlorine by having most of the chlorine bound to CYA.

 

[Henry Porter]

My numbers today!
FC: 3,5 still running the SWG at the lowest output like 10hours/day. I Coulden't find Richards CYA/FC chart for some strange reason, I thiught I found that sticky on the balance your water section last time! So I'm not sure if 3,5 is OK with CYA of 50 or if I shall try to go a bit higher. I have left my swg on during today and see what it will be tomorrow morning.
CC: O
TC:3,5
PH: 7,4 still a little low so I added PH rise again, se what that will bring tomorrow.
TA: 70 Did adjust that the other day
CH: 60 have dropped from 90ppm the last time I meassured? Shall I rise CH do you think?
CYA: 50 will take another test of that tomorrow se if it will rise even further.
salt: 3900
Temp: 79 F without any help from the heatpump, just the solarblanket during the night

The water is sparkling and no psi rise over the cart filter yet Me and my family are bunch of happy people that just waiting for the sun to come back again. we have run a little low on that lately :-D
DW just in the door with a box full of beers for me This is the brand we always drink when we are in Croatia and one of my favourites. If you can get it where you are, try it out it's worth it....
Thanks all! And Matt you're a nice fellow [attachment=0:sjxpsftn]PivoIMG_8504.gif[/attachment:sjxpsftn]

 

[dlduvall]

Boy, Mats, I wish we could send some you some of the sun we are getting here! It's supposed to hit almost 100 degrees today and going outside is like going into a sauna! It's (almost) too hot to get into the pool! :lol:

 

[chem geek]

I Coulden't find Richards CYA/FC chart for some strange reason, I thiught I found that sticky on the balance your water section last time! So I'm not sure if 3,5 is OK with CYA of 50 or if I shall try to go a bit higher. I have left my swg on during today and see what it will be tomorrow morning.

Look at the Pool School for the Chlorine / CYA Chart. Your CYA is lower than recommended for SWG pools (assuming lots of sunlight) so you can use the SWG rule of a minimum FC that is at least 4.5% of the CYA level which for 50 ppm would be 2.25 ppm, but to make things simple just use 5% so 2.5 ppm. Your 3.5 ppm is fine, but will use more chlorine.

When you say the SWG is on lowest output like 10 hours/day, do you mean that you have it set to something like 10% with the pump running for 10 hours/day or do you mean that your pump is on for 24 hours and the SWG has an on-time setting of 10/24 = 42% (say, 40%)?

 

[Henry Porter]

Thanks Richard!
I found that chart over at poolschool but I saw a more precise one in another thread that was a spread sheet showing target FC, kill algea FC and lowest FC for each level of CYA. But that one at the pool school will do
I don't think I need one now when you taught me the thumb of rule that 5% of your CYA level is enough when you don't have plenty of sun!
I think I will lower my FC to 2,5ppm then. I will aim for as low FC as possible without jeopardise it's abillity to take care of things that it's there for.

I have on my swg all the time my pump is running, I have turned it off when the blankets have been on during the day and on days where there have been no bathing load to speak of( I'm talking like I have had the polol open for a long time when in fact is't only been open for less than a week ). Otherwise I have it on it's lowest settings, so the SWG is probably over dimensioned for my pool.

I know that you answered my question about the CH levels my pool should have before but now when the levels has lowered even more could that become a problem or should I see my pool like a vinylpool in regards of CH levels needed.


dlduvall please send me some sun of yours. We had 68 over here at mid day today, so I will gladly pay for the freight
I have been in today anyway and it's OK as long as you stay under water but cold when you get up since it's rather windy aswell. I hope for some improvements next week so we have a chance to work on the tan and at the same time enjoy the pool

 

[duraleigh]

I know that you answered my question about the CH levels my pool should have before but now when the levels has lowered even more could that become a problem or should I see my pool like a vinylpool in regards of CH levels needed.

Hi, Mats,

I haven't posted to you in a while but I have certainly followed the thread. (from the beginning, actually)

With your tile and epoxy grout, it would seem to me you have no masonry surface in contact with the water so it would be fine to treat it as a vinyl pool and disregard the CH reading. I can't remember if we've had a pool finish like yours where we have discussed water balance. Others may have a different opinion but to me, CH seems unimportant.

 

[chem geek]

Thanks Richard!
I found that chart over at poolschool but I saw a more precise one in another thread that was a spread sheet showing target FC, kill algea FC and lowest FC for each level of CYA. But that one at the pool school will do

The chart you are referring to is this one that is also linked to from the other chart in the Pool School. However, in the table I didn't list the SWG values -- I just denote the 4.5% rule for that. Anyway, you've got your target for your pool and can see how things go. Now get in the pool and enjoy swimming!

 

[Henry Porter]

Back on track again, started to work on the project again after a few weeks off. Vacation starts to heading towards it's end and I'm full of energy to tackle the remaining task's.
I did as you said Richard and we have been bathing as much as we could since the weather have been much better than the forecast have prodicted last couple of days . But as you all know "we don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

I have poured the counter over the fridge today. I really looking forward to install the fridge so I can use it when mates comes over. Feels good not have to go inside to catch a cold one, just bend down and grab one out there, what a feeling
And also when we grill to be able to have bbq sauces and stuff right where it should be must be great aswell.

Dave I coulden't keep my hands from that pile of rebars that I have over for very long, could I... It is a good feeling though to reinforce a concrete slab again even if it's not a big one this time. Feels REFRESHING [attachment=2:1hx340g9]PysselIMG_8380.gif[/attachment:1hx340g9][attachment=1:1hx340g9]PysselIMG_8381 (2).gif[/attachment:1hx340g9][attachment=0:1hx340g9]PysselIMG_8385.gif[/attachment:1hx340g9]

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

The water is sparkling and no psi rise over the cart filter yet

Just a thought... my cart pressure has never changed in 9 years. It changes depending on the speed and the port setting, but as far as showing a dirty cart vs. clean, nope, nada. When my heater was working (broke in May) the heater would not kick on if the cart was too dirty. That was when I knew it was time for a cleaning. But in general I can go about 6 weeks in between (YMMV) cleanings. The pressure didn't not go down after cleaning. Not even a change when we replaced the cart a couple of years ago.

So just thought I'd mention that - don't neccessarily look to the PSI as an indicator if when it needs to be cleaned.

 

[Henry Porter]

Hi fpm!
That was not something that wanted to hear! Another thing to keep track of
I made a rough calculation how many gallons /sq ft cartridge I have and 32gallons is what I came up with. I hope and think that this is pretty oversized. We don't have much debris and use skimmer socks so my plan for this year is not to clean it until I winterize. But I will keep an eye on the water quality. You know I'm of the nature that I have to optimise everything I can, so if there is something that I can questioning I will I don't know how many watertests I have conducted so far but probably many more than the avarage Joe. So now when I can't trust the pressure gague I will worry about that aswell. But I find a way to cope, is not that I will drop dead just beacuse of this but it will add some extra weight on my already heavy shoulders .
I'm glad that you made me alert on the problem though. I have had a close eye on the pressure gague since I started the pool and have been so happy that it hasen't rised yet :?

btw: Pretty good feeling to turn 42 isn't Probably the best age during 2010

 

[chem geek]

I have a 16,000 gallon pool and a 340 square foot 4-cart filter so that's 47 gallons per square foot. I only need to clean the filter once per year, but I have an electric safety cover so the pool doesn't get terribly dirty. The cartridge mostly gets filled with suntan lotion (it used to get a lot of cedar needles when we had a tree that dumped needles into the pool when the pool was open). The pool is used nearly every day for 1-2 hours (more on weekends) for around 7 months of the year. So I suspect you will very likely be able to get away with a once a year cleaning as well.

FPM is right about the pressure not showing a change. I've never seen my pressure move except from changes in flow rate. That should not be a problem since you can see how your cartridge looks after this swim season.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

I have filter cartridge envy . LOL :lol:

 

[no-mas]

Awesome, Mats! Glad to see you and the family enjoying the pool. Kitchen is looking good also! I love how you set aside space for your Weber kettle. I planned a spot in my outside kitchen for my kettle also... more a storage spot instead of building it in like you did. Of course, a friend of mine pointed out to me that I recently purchased my 4th grill. I have a small and large weber kettle, a weber summit gasser, and my latest addition is a bubba keg grill, which is a knock off of the big green egg. It's a bad habit, I guess, but my honey doesn't give me grief about it because it just means that she doesn't have to cook as much. Enough about all that, though. Our outdoor kitchen is probably used more than our indoor. Like you will find, having your outdoor fridge near the pool and grill is nothing short of a great thing - hope you enjoy your new outdoor space as much as I do mine! We use it year 'round. Sweden may be a little cold for winter use, but certainly hope you get much enjoyment out of it.

Cheers to you Mats! Well done!

 

[Barbara C]

Mats,
I saw on another post that you are interested in smoking meat. You can do this with your charcoal kettle. I even do it with my gas grill. Hope this link helps you. http://www.smokercookingsecrets.com/cha ... grill.html Here we can buy wood chips special for smoking and I'm assuming you can too. If not, go chop down someone's hickory tree or apple tree. Apple smoked meat is wonderful!

 

[dlduvall]

Here's another one chiming in for the cart filters. Ours does not show change of pressure either. We usually clean it once in the middle of the summer and then when we close the pool for the winter. We do get a lot of leaves and tree debris all year. We can usually tell when it needs to be cleaned, because the water just doesnt seem to be as sparkly as usual. (there's that sparkly poolitis disease again ) You'll know what we mean when you start comparing your own pool water to some of those non-TFP pools! (if you havent already :lol: ) You, too, will catch sparkly poolitis.